Click here to close
New Message Alert
List Entire Thread
Msg ID: 2701387 Do you have the constitutional right to refuse the COVID vaccine? +2/-0     
Author:Jett
8/30/2021 1:45:35 AM

You do not have the 'constitutional right' to refuse the Covid-19 vaccine

Marci Hamilton is a professor at the University of Pennsylvania and CEO of CHILD USA, a nonprofit think tank working to end child abuse and neglect in the US. Dr. Paul Offit is director of the Vaccine Education Center and professor of pediatrics in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and the Maurice R. Hilleman Professor of Vaccinology at the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. The opinions expressed in this commentary are their own. View more opinion on CNN.

(CNN)Now that the US Food and Drug Administration has approved the Pfizer/ BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older, it's time for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine for people taking part in indoor activities. There are no more valid excuses for not being vaccinated other than health reasons.

One frequently heard pushback against vaccine mandates is that there is a "constitutional right" to choose whether to be vaccinated or not for adults and a right to determine whether children can be vaccinated. That is a non-starter in the midst of a pandemic.
The Constitution is not a suicide pact guaranteeing a right to harm others. The government has latitude to protect citizens from deadly conditions, especially when the science supporting vaccination is so clear.
The bioethicist, professor Arthur Caplan of New York University, has made a compelling case for the moral mandate to require vaccination. Appearing with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio in a news briefing last month to address the city mandating vaccines for all municipal workers, he argued that the new policy "makes good, ethical and public health sense" and that "it will help all of us by keeping the COVID outbreak controlled."
 
We agree, but also believe that the public needs to better understand that there is no constitutional right to avoid vaccine mandates against a deadly disease.
With respect to children, parents do not have carte blanche. At one time, children were the property of their fathers, but that is no longer the case. Children are "persons" under the Constitution, and as the ruling in Prince v. Massachusetts held, parents do not have a constitutional right to make martyrs of their children. Parents have an obligation to protect their children's health and life, which means that the school district mandates that reduce the risk of death to children should be enforceable, period.
 
Now there's no excuse for not requiring vaccinations
Those challenging the government mandates are likely to invoke their rights under the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments, which protect speech, religion, and a right not to "be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." Their view ends up as a snapshot of themselves; nonetheless, rights can be limited if a person is endangering another.
It's a sentiment that came up in the 1905 Supreme Court decision in the case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The court ruled against a man who had refused to be vaccinated against smallpox, stating: "Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own (liberty), whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others." That same principle was apparent when Justice Amy Coney Barrett, who is thought to be a strong rights-advocate, left standing Indiana University's vaccine mandate.
 
The government may prohibit otherwise constitutionally protected conduct to save the lives of others.
For example, it is well-settled that governments can ban yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater, because such speech can lead to death as attendees race to the exits. True, the First Amendment's Speech Clause protects the "freedom of speech," but there is no requirement that the government can't prevent scenarios likely leading to death.
The same reasoning applies to vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court explicitly upheld vaccine mandates against deadly diseases in Jacobson, where it explained: "the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand." We live in a country of ordered liberty, not individual autonomy that paves the way to the deaths of others. In short, it is not the right of every American citizen to catch and transmit a potentially fatal infection.
 
We would posit, further, that governments that don't mandate vaccination against Covid-19 are skating very close to violating the standard for a constitutional right to "life" without due process. If a government does not take reasonable action to prevent the likely deaths of so many people, there will be more lawsuits. Already, we've seen schools filing lawsuits against former Trump administration officials and individuals suing the World Health Organization contending that they mishandled the Covid-19 response.
The depth of the science and the worldwide experience show plainly that vaccination is the best protection from this pandemic, and that the faster we reach herd immunity the more likely it will be that people won't die from this virus, hospitals won't be overburdened, and the economy will fully recover.
It is reckless at this point for the government not to mandate vaccination. Some politicians have falsely told Americans that they have a constitutional right to refuse vaccination. This is a license to potentially infect others with a deadly disease when the Supreme Court has consistently held otherwise.
Children and adults have a constitutional right to "life" that can only be protected if there is mass vaccination. It's time for state and local governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines -- as New York and San Francisco have -- before this virus mutates into an even more elusive killer than it already is.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.


Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701414 Jett, question for you +1/-1     
Author:Old Guy
8/30/2021 10:39:05 AM

Reply to: 2701387

Every place in this article that it talks about mandates it uses the word governments, why does it refer to more than one government?

 



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701462 The Author answers that question in the first paragraph...  +2/-0     
Author:Jett
8/30/2021 3:17:00 PM

Reply to: 2701414

She says " it's time for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine for people taking part in indoor activities." It seems pretty clear to me that "Governments accross the country" refers to Federal, State, and Local government. In fact in her last paragraph she says "It's time for state and local governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines".  

We have all seen the news of Govenors of several redneck states as well as local government leaders in some areas trying to stop both masks and vaccines. Taking these blantantly political positions at the expence of the people is simply wrong. 

Don't you think so? 

 



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701467 You kind of got it +0/-3     
Author:Old Guy
8/30/2021 4:13:14 PM

Reply to: 2701462

Only the state governments have that kind of authority, the Federal Government has no legal avenue to make that kind of demand.



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701470 Here's a question for the forum: How did covid 19 come to infect your town, +3/-0     
Author:TheCrow
8/30/2021 4:35:29 PM

Reply to: 2701467

Here's a question for the forum: How did covid 19 come to infect your town, county or state?

The federal government has the authority to respond to national and international epidemics.

 



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701482 You think you know, but what you know is not much +1/-2     
Author:Old Guy
8/30/2021 7:50:21 PM

Reply to: 2701470

The federal goverment does not have the authority to mandate masks or vaccines.

If Biden did he would have already done it.

It is a states right.

why do you useful idiots disregard the constitution in favor of central goverment control?  

Your Marxist benefits are allways showing.



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701501 Old Dude, all of you anti-vaxxers are the only reason COVID lives...  +2/-0     
Author:Jett
8/30/2021 11:44:21 PM

Reply to: 2701482

Because you guys refuse to do the patriotic thing and "Take a Jab 4 Your Country", we can't effectively manage COVID. The results are millions of Americans are going to become severely ill and thousand's will die, all needlessly suffering due to you anti-vaxxers.

With Freedom comes Responsibility!   



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701509 Jett, you are not looking at the complete picture  +0/-2     
Author:Old Guy
8/31/2021 12:20:15 AM

Reply to: 2701501

There is more than 200,000 illegals entering the US monthly, sometimes many more, and those are the one we know about.  Over 20% of them have the virus and not one thing is done!  There are packed up sent all over the states spreading COVID.  I do not see you posting how shitty Biden policies are and the results that millions of Americans are getting severely ill and thousand's will die.

useful idiot 



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701532 Jett, you are not looking at the complete picture  +2/-0     
Author:TheCrow
8/31/2021 9:11:12 AM

Reply to: 2701509

"There are (sic) packed up sent all over the states spreading COVID." They are tested for covid.

 

On a seperate issue "Over 20% of them have the virus..."  An even stronger argument for Americans to us social distancing, the mask and the jab.



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701537 The 'Commerce Clause' in the Constitution give the Federal government powe  +2/-0     
Author:TheCrow
8/31/2021 10:20:40 AM

Reply to: 2701467

The 'Commerce Clause' in the Constitution give the Federal government power to deal with epidemics.


"As COVID-19 continues its assault on the country, residents in more than 10 states have been ordered to stay home and businesses, including restaurants, health clubs and entire malls, have been closed as governors nationwide take extraordinary steps in an effort to protect public health. Under what legal authority do such orders fall – and are there legal limits on government actions during a health emergency?

"Never have state and federal powers been tested to the extent that we are seeing today. The federal government’s power is limited to certain circumstances. Through the Commerce Clause, which gives Congress exclusive authority to regulate interstate and foreign commerce, the federal government has broad authority to quarantine and impose other health measures to prevent the spread of diseases from foreign countries, as well as between states although that has never been affirmed by the courts. Also, the federal Public Health Service Act authorizes the secretary of Health and Human Services to lead federal public health and medical responses related to public health emergencies."



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701544 You think you know but you don’t know much +1/-2     
Author:Old Guy
8/31/2021 10:48:19 AM

Reply to: 2701537

The commerce clause dose not cover or allow the federal goverment to mandating vaccines.  Have you ever read the constitution?

you claim that the federal goverment has broad authority to quarantine and impose other measures to prevent the spread of diseases between the states, but never been affirmed by the courts.  I call BS!

The Supreme Court has already ruled that the states have the authority to enforce compulsory laws.  (Jacobson v Massachusetts).  Now how does the federal government have the authority to impose measures on the states if it has NO AUTHORITY to enforce these laws?

ppp



Return-To-Index  
 
Msg ID: 2701569 Never been tested in the courts, eh? Then the Commerce Clause can be used  +2/-0     
Author:TheCrow
8/31/2021 1:33:50 PM

Reply to: 2701544

Never been tested in the courts, eh? Then the Commerce Clause can be used and then litigated, so you will have a definitive answer then. In the meantime, instead of relying on the miraculous disappearance of the novel coronavirus animal deworming meds or drinking bleach, the Commerce Department, whoever, can act to limit the number infected.

In the meantime, 'Trump's flu' has killed 656,482 Americans. It's estimated that the total number of Americans who dead of Trump's flu will reach 738,776 by December 1st.

 



Return-To-Index