On the other hand, Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan ends American deaths in an endless war.

In 20 years of fighting there, 2372 Americans died: 1856 in combat. The 13 killed at Kabul by terrorists  is only a little less than have been killed there in the last 2 years: 16.

Time to end another forever war. It's sad that Obama and Trump weren't brave enough to do it.

This has emboldened every terroists all over the world.  Will cost many lives, all over the world.  Americans will pay the price with many deaths.  How many Americans are still in Afghanistan?  Was that an American hung from the Blackhawk?  This will be the start of a bigger round of terror And now they are armed with much better stuff than box cutters.

you are a complete fool!

First of all I agree with you, the Rock Pile withdrawal was a Cluster Fuck that was completely mismanaged. Yes, I blame Biden for that, as the POTUS that's the way it works, you get praised for the good and you get ripped for the bad. Unlike you Old Dude, I will never hesitate to call out anyone who is wrong, red or blue.

But there is way more to this picture and way more blame to go around. Number one, and the two neocons who should shoulder the most blame are Dubya and Dickhead. Nation building in the Rock Pile, that's beyond stupid. I was over at JH in those days saying exactly that, day after day that Iraq was insanity as they had nothing to do with 911, and that we should blow into the Rock Pile and obliterate Al Qaeda. At the time I was saying it could be done on thirty days, I've since changed that to 90 days, and then Get The Hell Out!

Neither Obama or Donnie had the balls to get us out because they knew exactly what would happen and they didn't want that on their record, so they deserve blame as well. Biden had the balls to do it he just fucked it up. Somehow they thought that it would take the Taliban some months, some even said over a year for them to take control of the country. That was 100% wrong, how could our intelligence and experts have gotten that so wrong? I've always said that the Taliban will be back in a hurry, they had been training for 20 years to do exactly what they did.

So lets be fair here...

Dubya & Dickhead 80% to blame (Extreme Stupidity)

Obama & Donnie 10% to blame (Pussies)

Biden 10% to blame (Fucked up the Withdrawal)   

Most all Americans wanted to leave, but this was done by a fool.  He got rid of Trumps plans, made his own against the advice of experts.  And lied to us every step of the way!  Some of his lies!

1).  No American will be left behind ( they were)

2.   We will evacuate Afghan citizens who helped us (we didn't)

3.  We didn't need Bangram airport ( we did)

4.  The 300;00 strong Afghan army will be able to hold the Taliban (there was actuall 150,000 in the arm) They folded in 11 days.  

5.  The chaos was inevitable ( it wasn't)

6.  The Afghan army let us down and didn't have the will to fight. (We deserted them knowing they relied on us for air cover and they fought hard and lost over 50,000).

7.  We can continue to protect Afghan women and girls (he didn't)

8.  It's Trump fault because he negotiated a bad deal with the Taliban..... NO it's not Trumps deal that was bad  -  it's Biden ..... lousy follow through

9.  Trump didn't try to create a coalition government between the Taliban and the rest of the country (yes he did.  It was part of Trumps plan)

10.  Trumps plan locked him in to a quick withdrawal - NO....Trumps plan was "condition based". So Biden could have reworked it since the Taliban violated the deal.

11.  The Taliban had already taken control when Biden came in.  NO.... Actually the Taliban started right after Biden took office.

THESE ARE JUST SOME OF BIDEN'S LIES 

All Biden has done is make the world less safe

I guess you can take comfort in the fact that Trump didn't even attempt to get Americans out of Afghanistan? 60 Americans died in Afghanistan during Trump's presidency. 13 died in the evacuation, seems a bargain to me, even though poorly planned and/or executed.

1).  No American will be left behind ( they were)

In 2016 there were 8400 american troops in Afganistan. 13000 were there in 2020. Clearly Trump didn't have a plan, either and was willing to put more Americans at risk for his failure.

2.   We will evacuate Afghan citizens who helped us (we didn't)

We didn't get all the cooperative Afghanis out. Should we have bumped them up the list, replacing Americans?

3.  We didn't need Bangram airport ( we did)

Did Trump's plan include the airport?

4.  The 300;00 strong Afghan army will be able to hold the Taliban (there was actuall 150,000 in the arm) They folded in 11 days. 

Now, that's clearly some sunshine and smoke blown up somebody's skirt.

5.  The chaos was inevitable ( it wasn't)

How does one classify the "chaos" that could have been controlled and assign responsibility? A retreat, withdrawal is a very difficult operation. 

6.  The Afghan army let us down and didn't have the will to fight. (We deserted them knowing they relied on us for air cover and they fought hard and lost over 50,000).

When did America withdraw from a war that was eventually decided in our favor?

7.  We can continue to protect Afghan women and girls (he didn't)

8.  It's Trump fault because he negotiated a bad deal with the Taliban..... NO it's not Trumps deal that was bad  -  it's Biden ..... lousy follow through

9.  Trump didn't try to create a coalition government between the Taliban and the rest of the country (yes he did.  It was part of Trumps plan)

10.  Trumps plan locked him in to a quick withdrawal - NO....Trumps plan was "condition based". So Biden could have reworked it since the Taliban violated the deal.

Fair points, except you don't negotiate a 'fair deal' with an Army that's winning. You negotiate to a position appear to lose less.

11.  The Taliban had already taken control when Biden came in.  NO.... Actually the Taliban started right after Biden took office.

The taliban didn't have their signs on any doors, but they were in control. Which is why Afghan collapsed so quickly.

You're incapable of fairly evaluating the issue like I did. Even if we had done the withdrawal correctly and gotten all Americans safely out before the Taliban took control of Kabul, the end result would be identical to what we have now. The Taliban would have taken control of the entire country including Kabul as soon as we left and they would be doing the exact same thing they are doing now. 

If you don't understand that, you don't understand the Rock Pile... 

He was apparently unsuccessful, but no one was hanged and no one was injured. He was in a body harness, and he even appeared to wave at one point.

Strive for the truth Old Dude...

The Taliban are Extremely Conservative Muslims who believe that their God justifies their abhorrent behavior, I could never support them.

It's almost surreal that we have the Extremely Conservative Right Wing Evangelical Christians who believe that their (My) God justifies their abhorrent behavior, I could never support them.   

In 20 years we have removed the taliban from power. At what point do you admit that the Afghanis don't want an American endorsed and installed government?

"The Graveyard of Empires"

You can count on one hand the number of functioning Islamist governments. Now it's 4, maybe 5; and that potential fifth- Afghanistan is now Iran's, Pakistan's and a bunch of other "Stans'" problem, not ours. We have no strategic interest there.

And they're faced with their own fundamentalist terrorism: ISIS-K is only the first of the schismatic Islamists that will see them as weak and heretical.

Afghan will not be exporting Islamic terrorism. Their government is not self sufficient and will not align all the warlords in support who have historically been dominant forces there.

All Muslim extremists are not the same.

You still believe Trump Won... I rest my case