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Msg ID: 2704868  +2/-0     
Author:TheCrow
9/24/2021 1:11:31 PM

Do I want Trump prosecuted for his crimes? Yes, but... That stinks of political, not criminal justice. He will never serve a day in jail despite his criminal actions.

The way that he will be held accountable will be through his companies, hitting him in his heart and sou- his pocketbook. The only asset Trump had was his name and that's rapidly declining in value as he attacks the American political system. Who in heck wants to invest in the Trump Organization's endeavors when he shows absolutely no faith in the validity, legality of American law? Perhaps he could pick up a Trump Tower and run away to a friendlier country?

He's done. We tried the radical alternative to conventional politicians (with a minority presidential election) and have the concrete results before our eyes: hundreds of thousands of American dead, the highest covid case count in the world continuing at about 20% and the highest COVID CFR of any G20 country; the sharpest recession and unemployment since the Depression; a stunning loss of international support and credibility.

Fact: Trump got Biden elected. It's a sad, sad statement that Joe Biden was considered a better choice as POTUS than an incumbent Trump.

 

As former President Donald Trump’s second impeachment trial begins, it shines a light on a new reality: although it’s been nearly 100 days since Trump lost his re-election he is not going away, at least in the short term. What will become of Trump? Here are nine possible outcomes for Trump’s future—the first four possibilities keep him in the middle of national politics; in the latter five, he would more likely fade away.

1. Leading the “Trumpublican” faction of the GOP

Over the course of four years as president, Trump masterfully consolidated Republican voters into a cult of personality. His hardcore supporters were willing to believe anything that left his lips, regardless of evidence to the contrary. They were willing to put their own lives at risk as he huddled them together at rallies and mocked those taking precautions to prevent the spread of COVID-19. They were willing to commit insurrection against their own government, all in his name and to support his lies about election malfeasance.

That non-trivial group of Republican and Republican-leaning voters is not going away, and they remain loyal not to the party but to Donald Trump. It remains to be seen exactly how large this group is, how much power they will wield in Republican primaries and whether a non-Trumpublican candidate can consolidate the remainder of the party.

January 6th showed us that there is essentially nothing his supporters are unwilling to do in his name. But the risk is that his behavior and his supporters’ behavior becomes so appalling that the remainder of the Republican Party says “enough is enough” and unites against him. The first test of this will be in the primaries during the 2022 midterms, where Trump is already threatening to “primary” Congresswoman Liz Cheney (R-WY) for her vote to impeach him. The ultimate test will be the 2024 presidential primaries. Trump as the 2024 nominee is a real possibility, and so is Trump as kingmaker.

2. Uniting MAGA to form a third party

After pushback from Republican governors and secretaries of state, judges, and even members of Congress like Liz Cheney and then-Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (KY), Trump floated the idea of establishing a third party to promote his own views and give his supporters a home. Trump’s most ardent supporters not only offer allegiance to him but are deeply skeptical of any Republican who does not do the same. From an ideological perspective (steeped mostly in personal politics), there is a space for Trump go rogue and liberate himself and his supporters from the confines of the GOP.

However, such a move would prove disastrous for Republicans. Running third-party candidates would hemorrhage support from the GOP and improve Democrats’ chances not simply in swing districts and states, but in mainstream Republican states. That Democratic advantage would exist anywhere the third party fielded and funded a candidate. Someone may have broken through to Trump after his “Patriot Party” musings. Once a political action committee sprung up to begin raising money for Trump’s third-party idea, the Trump campaign committee distanced itself from it. There are plenty of foot-soldiers (quite literally), affiliated political staffers, and streams of grassroots funding to get such an effort off the ground. But Republican politicos know that while the Trump wing of the party is not large enough to be successful, it’s large enough to be devastating to their election chances.

3. Continuing calls for violent insurrection

Throughout the post-election period, President Trump denied his loss, generated a cottage industry of lies and misinformation about election fraud (that his attorneys could not discuss in court without committing perjury), and eventually motivated his supporters to react violently to the certification of the election. Those calls for violence translated to death threats for state officials including Secretary of State Brian Raffensberger (R-GA) and culminated in Trump’s supporters taking up arms against their own government on January 6th at the U.S. Capitol.

While the insurrection was put down, the ideas and motives of the seditionists in Trump’s coalition have not gone away. Trump could well become so desperate that he opts to continue to stoke violent flames of tension. Last month the Department of Homeland Security issued a terrorism advisory stating that “violent domestic extremists” pose a threat to the United States and are motivated by government restrictions in response to COVID-19 as well as false narratives about the election. Supporters of violent ideology see Trump as both their leader and their muse. Donald Trump embraces adoration, regardless of the source, and now that he has been stripped of the title “commander-in-chief,” he could find a different army, within the United States, to command and control.

4. Creating his own communications company

Whether you supported Trump or not, there is no denying that Twitter served as his most effective means of communicating with the world. When Twitter instituted a permanent ban on him it dramatically cut down on his ability to spread misinformation and instruct his supporters. This was a crushing blow to a president so dependent on the social media platform.

Trump also began to embrace more fringe television media such as OANN and Newsmax, even distancing himself from his beloved Fox News Channel. Trump could look at the media landscape, see a significant prospective audience and launch new ways to communicate with the world. This could include establishing his own news channel, likely first as an online platform and then eventually a more traditional television news network. This would give Trump, his family, his favored television personalities, and his ardent supports a platform for their views.

In conjunction with “Trump News Television,” the former president could establish a social media platform to allow his supporters to post what has gotten them banned from Facebook and Twitter: espouse hate, misinformation, death threats, Qanon conspiracies, and other lies. His app could face de-platforming challenges, similar to the now-defunct Parler, but it would also allow him to have a direct line to his army of supporters who are ready to embrace his rhetoric and believe his every utterance.

5. Maintaining marginal status in the GOP akin to Sarah Palin

In contrast to the scenarios mentioned above, Trump could lose the battle for the heart and soul of the GOP and become a marginalized figure in the Republican Party. In this scenario people will stop seeing him as the former president and instead view him as that obnoxious relative who retired to Florida and yells about the conspiracy theories he read online. His supporters will still remember him fondly, but will have moved on to a new, shiny, race-baiting candidate like Josh Hawley or Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Trump, like Palin or his former press secretary Sean Spicer, might try to raise his profile by appearing on network reality shows, but ultimately may return to his status as an entertainer and not a political player. The Republican Party could ignore Trump while embracing Trumpism. People like Ted Cruz and Lindsay Graham could unite his supporters with a similar message, while trying to turn the page on their old boss who couldn’t even manage to beat “Sleepy Joe.”

6. Get convicted by the Senate by a Republican Party ready to move on

Some of the paths forward for Trump are out of his hands. As he stares down his second impeachment trial in 13 months, conviction and being barred from office remains unlikely even though he is certain to face more conviction votes than last time. As information comes out about the president’s language and actions in the lead up to January 6th and the activities in the Capitol that day, the long-shot scenario is one in which Trump’s efforts for acquittal fail. It would take unanimous support from Democratic senators (an all but certain outcome) and the votes of at least 17 Republican senators (the true long shot).

In a secret vote on whether or not Congresswoman Liz Cheney (R-WY) could retain her position in the House Republican Leadership in spite of her vote to impeach Trump, she won a significant 145 to 61 victory. House Republicans refused to sanction Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) for advocating Nancy Pelosi’s assassination and propagating far-right conspiracy theories, but on a floor vote to remove her committee assignments 11 Republicans joined Democrats. Like the House, the Senate is also at a crossroads. The vote to convict Trump could be divisive within the party, but it would signal publicly what a clear and significant number of Republicans will say privately: the only path forward for the GOP is a world without Trump. Whether 17 Republican senators demonstrate profiles in courage or resort to profiles in cowardice will powerfully determine what Trump’s post-presidency looks like.

7. Disappearing in a swamp of criminal charges and civil suits

Another option out of Trump’s hands depends on what happens in the U.S. Department of Justice, the Attorney General’s office in New York, the Manhattan District Attorney’s office, and other law enforcement entities around the country currently investigating Donald Trump, his kids, his friends, and the Trump Organization. There is a significant chance that Trump, his affiliates, and his company face legal troubles that will consume their time, their money, and possibly their liberty.

If Trump, et. al. face charges and lawsuits from all directions, his ability to organize politically and financially to play kingmaker in Republican politics will be significantly curtailed. It could also present a significant enough stain on the Trump brand to force much of the party to distance themselves from him. This will particularly be true if Trump tries to raise funds from Republican Party sources to wage legal defenses—funding that would cut into the party’s efforts to take back control of Congress in 2022 and the White House in 2024. Although Republicans see Trump’s enthusiasm and his supporters’ commitment to him as part of the lifeblood of GOP success, if Trump begins to interrupt the money flow for the party, that could be a final straw.

8. Going to jail

As Trump’s legal headaches pile up, jail time is a real possibility. Allegations of tax evasion/fraud, money laundering, improper engagement with foreign entities, and others to come put the former president in a type of legal jeopardy he has never faced before. Trump’s legal problems could place him before state and federal judges who are unwilling to let his celebrity and claims of wealth supersede sentencing guidelines. It’s unlikely but possible that the former president could find himself in a place none of his predecessors found themselves: an orange jumpsuit.

An incarcerated Trump would make it difficult for him to campaign for president again. It would also make it impossible to barnstorm for his preferred candidates. His ability to fundraise would be nixed and his power to communicate with his supports would be severely limited. And while his endorsement from behind bars may bizarrely translate into political cache in some of the most pro-sedition, MAGA country congressional districts, throughout most of America it would be a liability. In this scenario, Trump will claim that he is a political prisoner, but the reality would be that Republican politics would no longer be a prisoner to him.

9. Looking abroad, either for refuge or to enrich himself

If Donald Trump sees a real possibility of an indictment in the United States, he could do what a lot of wealthy people staring down an arrest do: flee the country. While he wouldn’t be universally embraced (I’m sure Emanuel Macron or Angela Merkel would happily extradite him back or refuse him entry), there are havens for the former president abroad. First, there will be several countries who will happily take him in. Russia is at the top of the list. Saudi Arabia or Israel may also offer him a safe space. Second, he has a private plane which would also make his escape from the country easier than it would be for the rest of us. However, in his attempt to flee Trump would face a challenge that only nine other people face: lifetime Secret Service protection. He is protected by a law enforcement agency that would likely be charged to take him into custody if he were feeling an active indictment. In some sense, Trump will be surrounded by 6-foot-tall ankle bracelets, ready to stop his jet-setting to freedom.

In the absence of any threat to his freedom in the U.S., and with a brand that has declined in value at home, Trump may find countries where his name still carries weight. Trump Tower Moscow may get resuscitated. Trump Hotel Riyadh, Trump Resort Manila, or Trump National Golf Course outside Tel Aviv may be his future. As leaders and the public in some countries see Trump as a successful, powerful, wealthy former U.S. president, and as QAnon becomes increasingly global in reach, his best path back to wealth may be abroad.

Former presidents all seem to do the same thing. They get a big contract to write their memoirs and they turn their attention to the fundraising and design of their presidential libraries. They travel abroad and at home making some big-dollar speeches. But just as Trump’s presidency didn’t look like anything we’d ever seen before, neither will his post presidency—regardless of the path it takes.



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Msg ID: 2704884 That is one very misguided post +1/-3     
Author:Old Guy
9/24/2021 3:22:36 PM

Reply to: 2704868


Today Trump is more popular than ever before.

Polls are very biased, but today it is hard for them to hide the truth.  Trump is more popular now than at any other time.  His popularity is increasing more each day as the left fails to govern.

If both Trump and Biden run in the next election, polls already show Trump up 20 points!  That is from very one sided polls.  Big chance Trump will again become our president.

The left is losing elections all over the country.  California governors recall is the only place the left has had a reasonable showing, but the are 2 to 1.  The rest of the country is not supporting the left anymore.

Biden has an extremely low rating considering the biased news media. But the main stream news media is not even main stream anymore, they just think they are.  Just like Biden, the rating are the lowest ever!

useful idiot 

 

 



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Msg ID: 2704888 That is one very misguided post +2/-0     
Author:TheCrow
9/24/2021 4:03:11 PM

Reply to: 2704884

"Today Trump is more popular than ever before.

"Polls are very biased, but today it is hard for them to hide the truth. Trump is more popular now than at any other time. His popularity is increasing more each day as the left fails to govern.

"If both Trump and Biden run in the next election, polls already show Trump up 20 points! That is from very one sided polls. Big chance Trump will again become our president."

Cite the source of Trump's favorability in the next election being 20 points higher than Biden. You won't do it. Like Trump, you believe in the big lie- say it often, say it loud and people will forget that it's false.

 

"The left is losing elections all over the country. California governors recall is the only place the left has had a reasonable showing, but the are 2 to 1. The rest of the country is not supporting the left anymore."

Who cares if "The left is losing elections all over the country"? I'm conservative anti-Trumper, not a leftist or a Democrat. If what you say is true then the Republicans should walk over the Dems in 2022 and 2024. Trump won't be on the ticket in either election, however. He's a spent force. 

 

"Biden has an extremely low rating considering the biased news media. But the main stream news media is not even main stream anymore, they just think they are. Just like Biden, the rating are the lowest ever!"

Think about what you just posted- the media is unreliable but you cite the media. No wonder you're still a TrumpeRINO frog boy.



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Msg ID: 2704905 Oh Pumpkin +4/-0     
Author:bladeslap
9/24/2021 5:37:55 PM

Reply to: 2704884

"If trump were to run now, he would win"

Let's see if he stays out of jail for the next 3 1/2 years, stays healthy, etc

You'll start hearing more and more about your pathological liar



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Msg ID: 2704927 Oh Buddha +1/-3     
Author:Shooting Shark
9/25/2021 12:14:30 AM

Reply to: 2704905

Youve been spending too much time

in the monestary again,haven't you? 

I know all that chanting in the lotus position

is supposed to bring you closer to your goal of being an actual 

"Bodesatva"

But I hate to tell you thi, to me you still

look like a 

useful Idiot!

If you think Biden "won" that last election 

when he couldn't fill a parking lot of supporters

Youve been smelling more than "insence" in that ritual.

Some really high-grade  mind-altering cannibinoids, perhaps? 

whst is ominous about the last election

is the fact Creepy Joe  was successfully installed by fraud and collusion

iby some very high placed government institutions and financial powers.


That means democracy is DEAD.. there is therefore little chance
Trump will ever be president again, despite having massive popular support!

That also means a fascist government in the US has made an unholy alliance with 

Communist China-- Who's BioWar against the rest of the western nations 

Started in Wuhan-- and continues in Washington.

Does anyone here (besides the libz)

think we will have a fair election ever again?

The bastards that attacked Trump and the United States have an agenda.

"The Great Reset" -- " Build Back Better"

(No, they don't mean here in the US!) 

Useful Idiots!!

If Trump somehow won

it would certainly prove boters, and democracy,

actually mean something still today. 

On the other hand, I'd Trump "won"

could it mean the same nefarious 

caste of "king-makers" 

would allow Trump to actually win s as seconf term

for their own evil reasons? 


Could it be the ultimate public gaslighting?

A political -media civil war woold erupt.

The Uber rich ALWAYS profit from such division 

This last fake election

destroyed most people's belief in

legitimate constitutional government.

Conservative voters confidence in general elections

barely exists today.

Even Libz know there is fraud involved,

But they choose torecite the party-line

like good little lib sheeple..

"Libz....lost in a haunted wood,

...Children afraid of the dark, 

(and they're afraid of Covid, too) 

....who've never been happy or good."

useful idiots! 

 

 

 

 

<p> 

 



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Msg ID: 2704978 Who gives a shit what trumplican conservatives think? +3/-0     
Author:Jett
9/25/2021 5:19:31 PM

Reply to: 2704927

I'm cool with old school conservatives, Reagan conservatives are a good example. These new Extreme Right Trumplican Cultists are a completely different breed. January 6 was a perfect example of who these people are, these are not patriotic Americans, they are idiots trying to rip our country apart.

Flipper, you are so hyper focused on "Biden Didn't Win" that you can't see what really happened, trump Lost. That's what the election was all about, not Biden Winning, but trump Losing. Americans didn't say Yes to Biden, they said No to trump and the Extreme Right.

Your crying about "conservatives voters confidence", I don't care about that bull shit, trumplican conservatives are a Stain on our country. You are absolutely wrong, I know of no fraud to amount to anything in the past election. A clown who wears orange makeup told you the Big Lie for a year leading up to the election, and you took that hook, line, and sinker. You're in a Damn Cult Flipper, your mind is not your own.

You're incapable of thinking for yourself, your mind is owned by conspiracy theories and you're consumed by pizza parlors and far flung nonsense like QAnon. 

I hope for your sake that you can find a way to get those demons out of your head, because they are going to destroy you... 

           



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Msg ID: 2705035 Amid high security, small pro-Trump crowd rallies at U.S. Capitol +1/-0     
Author:TheCrow
9/26/2021 11:32:11 AM

Reply to: 2704927

Speaking of Biden "not being able to filla parking lot", Trump's turnout is ever shrinking. January 6 exposed Trump's intentions as being more than mere words....

 

United States

Amid high security, small pro-Trump crowd rallies at U.S. Capitol

WASHINGTON, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Police and media vastly outnumbered protesters around the U.S. Capitol on Saturday at a sparsely attended rally by supporters of the people who breached the building on Jan. 6, trying to overturn former President Donald Trump's election defeat.

About 100 to 200 protesters showed up, some carrying the flags of the right-wing group Three Percenters over their shoulders. It was far fewer than the 700 people organizers had expected and the thousands who brought mayhem to the Capitol on Jan. 6.

Hundreds of officers patrolled the Capitol grounds and a black eight-foot-high (2.44 m) fence that surrounded the white-domed building for about six months after the attack was reinstalled, reflecting unease about a potential repeat of Jan. 6. One hundred National Guard troops were on standby.

As part of an effort by some of Trump's far-right supporters to rewrite the history of the deadly mob assault on the Capitol that was captured in graphic video, speaker after speaker insisted that hundreds of rioters arrested for their actions that day were "political prisoners" who committed no violence.

Prosecutors and legal experts say the cases are being handled properly.

"This is about justice and disparate treatment," said Matt Braynard, a rally organizer and supporter of Trump's false claims that his defeat was the result of widespread fraud.

While crowds were small, passions rose at times, with sporadic yelling matches breaking out between participants in the rally and counter-demonstrators. Police on bicycles moved in to break up some of these squabbles.

Capitol Police reported four arrests, including a man armed with a handgun spotted in the crowd, though they said it was "not clear why the man was at the demonstration." Officers in riot gear also removed one man from the rally who had a large knife strapped to his hip.

Organizers of the "Justice for J6" rally called for a peaceful event, but U.S. Capitol Police Chief J. Thomas Manger told reporters on Friday there had been threats of violence linked to the rally, some targeting individual members of Congress, and police were bracing to prevent clashes between Trump supporters and opponents.

Tony Smith, 40, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, said he had come to voice his support for a fair judicial process for those charged in the breach of the Capitol.

"If we don't honor that we don't honor America," said Smith, who was carrying a poster board that said "We Want Trump!"

More than 600 people have been charged with taking part in the Jan. 6 violence, which followed a speech by Trump at a nearby rally reiterating his false claims that his election loss was the result of widespread fraud. Those claims have been rejected by multiple courts, state election officials and members of Trump's own administration.

Rioters that day battled police, beating them with sticks and metal barricades, smashed their way through windows into the Capitol building and ran through the halls, sending lawmakers and then-Vice President Mike Pence running for safety.

Four people died on Jan. 6, one fatally shot by police and three from medical emergencies. A Capitol Police officer who had been attacked by protesters died the day after and four police officers who took part in the defense of the Capitol later committed suicide. 

Almost 50 people have so far pleaded guilty to charges related to the violence, nine admitting to committing felonies. The vast majority of defendants have been released awaiting trial but about 75 are still in custody, according to court documents.

Members of the right-wing groups the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and Three Percenters are among those charged with storming the building.

"Let them go, let them go," the crowd occasionally chanted during the rally, which lasted just over an hour.

But Eric Lamar, 64, a retired firefighter in Washington, D.C., said he came to the Capitol to counter "false narratives" from Trump supporters about Jan. 6.

 

"It breaks my heart," Lamar said after hearing another retired firefighter claim that the riot was a "false flag," a conspiracy theory wrongly claiming that the event was staged. "There is no question that what happened on Jan. 6 is the work of supporters of Donald Trump who decided falsely and without evidence that the election was stolen."

Trump called Saturday's rally a “setup” and said media would use it as an excuse to bash Republicans regardless of its outcome, according to an interview on Thursday with the Federalist, a conservative news website.

Unlike on Jan. 6, when Congress was in session to certify Biden's election, the Capitol was largely empty on Saturday, with most members out of town.

No members of Congress attended Saturday's rally, though two Republican congressional candidates addressed the group.

 

Authorities, who had made clear they were much better prepared after being caught without enough forces to deploy quickly in January, took no chances.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin put 100 National Guard troops on standby to help police on Saturday if needed.

National Guard troops were stationed in and around the Capitol from early January through late May, with as many as 5,200 troops in place at the mission's peak.

Reporting by Jan Wolfe and David Morgan; Additional reporting by Gabriella Borter, Jim Bourg, Mark Hosenball and Merdie Nzanga; Writing by Matt Spetalnick; Editing by Scott Malone, Alistair Bell, Daniel Wallis and Andrea Ricci

Our Standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.



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Msg ID: 2705045 And you know how many peopel disagree with you? +2/-0     
Author:bladeslap
9/26/2021 1:13:54 PM

Reply to: 2704927

You're about as naive a fool as they get to think Trump really won that. Your fragile ego backing you into another corner

How many lawsuits were thrown out by republican trump appointed judges?

The very woman who was pushing some said (after being sued by Domnion) "A reasonable person would not accept what I'm saying without 

Here Pooty, she's talking about you in this one:




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Msg ID: 2705119 The problem here is that the Extreme Right aren't reasonable people... +2/-0     
Author:Jett
9/26/2021 8:41:56 PM

Reply to: 2705045

When you look at it objectively, it's not a political movement, it's a Cult...



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