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Msg ID: 2705244 Has anyone here been put into the vaccine mandate position? +2/-3     
Author:observer II
9/28/2021 8:47:14 AM

This is something I thought I would never see in this country. How is it possible to mandate American citizens to be injected with an experimental drug that has side effects that are deadly or compromise the natural immune system at the very least.

They are using public safety as the premise for this socialistic attempt to control people. It's obvious that is the only conclusion here. Thinning the populous was always the intent.

This incompetent administration gives a pass to congress, a pass to postal workers, a pass to the NBA, a pass to ALL illegals who are probably 50% infected, and my favorite part of the mandate is the number 100.

Who was the brilliant genius that came up with that. So if you have 99 or less, no mandate. 100 or more must be 100% vaccinated or lose their jobs.

That's a lot of exemptions.

We can't get people back to work now. And now they are firing people ruining their careers, their livelyhoods, destroying families in the proccess. And for what?

They think they can cure something that is incurable.

So, I ask, has anyone on this board been put into a position and forced to comply with this mandate? Has anyone lost their job over it?

It's a tough pill to swallow



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Msg ID: 2705250 Has anyone here been put into the vaccine mandate position? +2/-3     
Author:Shooting Shark
9/28/2021 10:17:36 AM

Reply to: 2705244

Sir Observer II, good to see you here again!

No I havent taken the vaccine, and I won't. I suspect the major threat to many people is the airlines. They are very political, and will take it in the ass if Creepy Joe says"bend over!"

When the evil socialist vaxers demand vax passports for airline passengers, and if the airlines comply, many people will lose their jobs if they can't travel. But if you're a pilot and fall into the 2% who have a crippling side effect from the fax, you'll lose your medical anyway, for sure. That is if you don't drop dead in a few days, as many people have.

And so, are these companies indemnified from civil lawsuits if someone has a bad reaction? Don't hold your breath either way. There won't be  a court in this country that would set that precident, even though no one has the riight to mandate such a thing.

Just goes to show what mindless sheeple our libs are. They support all this.

I used to wonder exactly who among the peasants in the old USSR actually supported the communist party.

Now I know.

it was people like our very own

useful idiots!

 



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Msg ID: 2705377 COVID-19 Vaccine Related Fatalities Updated +2/-0     
Author:TheCrow
9/29/2021 2:27:51 PM

Reply to: 2705250

Pooty sez: "...fall into the 2% who have a crippling side effect from the fax, you'll lose your medical anyway, for sure. That is if you don't drop dead in a few days, as many people have."

Since more than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the USA, this data reflects a vaccination-death ratio of 0.0018%.

The Monkey Palace... er- the "CDC" says otherwise, some of the specifics are in the article below. Excerpted:

"Since more than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the USA, this data reflects a vaccination-death ratio of 0.0018%."


As to myocarditis/pericarditis, there have been 1,541 reports, none determined to be in response but are being ivestigated. 1,541 of 338 million is 0.0000045%, a pretty exceptional event.  An American is 730 times more likely to be killed by lightning. You're being 'all wet' has a different sound now, doesn't it?



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Msg ID: 2705255 Obsy, you are so misinformed, your Messiah took his Jab... +2/-1     
Author:Jett
9/28/2021 10:58:12 AM

Reply to: 2705244
>

How badly unvaccinated Republicans are misinformed, in one stat

Aaron Blake  23 hrs ago
 
For months now, it has been evident that the problem with coronavirus vaccine hesitancy is twofold: Not only do the unvaccinated question the safety of the vaccines, but about as importantly, they often doubt the vaccines’ effectiveness in very inaccurate ways. It’s one thing to be convinced to take a vaccine if you worry about side effects; it’s quite another if you also don’t think there’s any benefit.
Demonstrators hold signs during a protest against coronavirus vaccines mandates in New York on Sept. 13. (Stephanie Keith/Bloomberg)© Stephanie Keith/Bloomberg Demonstrators hold signs during a protest against coronavirus vaccines mandates in New York on Sept. 13. (Stephanie Keith/Bloomberg)

Now a new poll from Gallup lays bare just how badly misinformed the unvaccinated are on that latter count. And that misinformation overwhelmingly lies on one side: the GOP.

Gallup asked people two questions: First, “what percentage of unvaccinated people have been hospitalized due to the coronavirus?” And second, “what percentage of fully vaccinated people have been hospitalized due to the coronavirus?”

Americans as a whole are actually reasonably well-informed about this. The median American — that is, the person exactly at the midpoint of all views — estimates the vaccines’ efficacy in preventing hospitalization is 80 percent (e.g. they say 20 percent of unvaccinated people require hospital care vs. 2 percent of vaccinated people). A study released this month showed the number is actually about 86 percent.

Gallup’s number derives from some wildly varying estimates of the hospitalization rates for vaccinated and unvaccinated people. For example, Democrats tend to oversell the danger to unvaccinated people, with a plurality wrongly believing at least half require hospital care. (This is why Gallup uses medians rather than averages.) But on balance, when you look at the relative numbers, the median American gets the benefit of vaccines about right.

But then we get to the subgroups. And that’s where we get a sense for just how warped the perceptions of the vaccines are, particularly among unvaccinated Republicans.

Among Democrats, the median view of the vaccines’ efficacy is about right for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people. The median vaccinated Democrat says the vaccines are about 88 percent effective at reducing hospitalizations, while the median unvaccinated Democrats pegs the number at 80 percent. The median vaccinated Republican is less sold on the efficacy of the vaccines even than the median unvaccinated Democrat, estimating a 73 percent reduction in hospitalization from the vaccines they’ve taken. But again, that’s in the ballpark.

Which brings us to unvaccinated Republicans. The median unvaccinated Republican believes that the percentage of unvaccinated people like themselves requiring hospitalization is 5 percent. How does that compare to how they believe the vaccinated fare? It’s exactly the same. They believe the hospitalization rate for vaccinated people is also 5 percent. So the median unvaccinated Republican essentially says the vaccines have net-zero efficacy — i.e. there is no benefit to getting vaccinated when it comes to landing in the hospital.

Unvaccinated Republicans views on vaccine efficacy.© Aaron Blake/Gallup Unvaccinated Republicans views on vaccine efficacy.

This, it bears reemphasizing, is not even close to accurate. A recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study found that unvaccinated people in Los Angeles County were 29.2 times more likely to require hospitalization. This was because they were about five times more likely to get infected, and then, once infected, significantly more likely to wind up in the hospital.

If anything, the most telling gap in this poll is between unvaccinated Democrats and unvaccinated Republicans. Both haven’t seen fit to get the shot; one group, though, is significantly more likely to correctively perceive a benefit if they do, while the other sees little-to-no benefit.

The dilemma from there is figuring out how that happens and what can be done about it. How is a class of people so badly misinformed about the efficacy of vaccines? Gallup surmises that it’s about the news they are consuming.

“Given previous studies on the effects of the media and information during COVID, one possible reason is that Democrats are more consistently exposed to information that favorably portrays vaccine efficacy,” Jonathan Rothwell and Dan Witters write.

Another way to say that would be that they are more consistently exposed to information that actually portrays vaccine efficacy accurately. Unvaccinated Republicans are getting their information from right-wing media and social media that dwells significantly more upon — and often hyperbolizes and misconstrues — the supposed negative aspects of the vaccines.

But while it’s been established how much that media and social media ecosystem oversells the side effects of the vaccines, less well established is how much it’s also feeding false perceptions of how well the vaccines work, even apart from those side effects. That might be as much because it ignores studies like the one in Los Angeles County as that it spins them in a negative light. It’s also possible that people who have decided not to get vaccinated are expressing doubt about vaccine efficacy to justify that decision.

But the effect is the same. And it makes persuasion of the remaining unvaccinated — and especially unvaccinated Republicans — doubly difficult.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.



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Msg ID: 2705500 And why is it that it is we that are so misinformed?? +1/-2     
Author:observer II
9/30/2021 10:39:56 AM

Reply to: 2705255

Let's first start with the data collection. There have been soooo many instances of false reporting and lack of reporting that it is impossible to believe anything they say at this point.

Vermont is the most vaccinated state we have and yet there hospitalazation / death rate is over 90% vacccinated people.

Now, we have a group of scientists / doctors that say you should get the vaccine.

Then, we have a group of scientists / doctors that say you shouldn't get the vaccine.

So tell me why one side is completely dismissed and not talked about.

Let's talk about NY healthcare workers. You've got hundreds of nurses, etc... that refused to get vaccinated and were fired. Lost their livelihoods, some lost their careers and the ability to support their familes. They were all willing to lose their jobs over this. WHY??????

Those people were at ground zero, they see, hear, and witness things we will never know about. Yet they were fired over non-compliance. 

So what is it that they know? I personally want to know why those people refused it. I want to hear their stories............but we won't, will we.

Call me misinformed if you want. But this is not constitutional in any way. And there is a real reason why this is happening.

Question is, are you goinig to be another sheep? Or are you going to do your due dilligence and make a common sense decision that will effect your life???????



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Msg ID: 2705507 You're A Liar, It Is So Wrong To To Parrot Bull Shit That Harms People...  +3/-1     
Author:Jett
9/30/2021 11:14:49 AM

Reply to: 2705500




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Msg ID: 2705589 What was that about parroting???? +0/-2     
Author:observer II
10/1/2021 8:08:46 AM

Reply to: 2705507

If you would look past The Rachel Madcows of the world, you would be enlightened to a whole new world out there.

You should open your eyes and experience both sides of this incompetence we are seeing from the most inept administration in history.

You can't get people to work because of this administration.

Now you're firing the ones that DO want to work because they won't comply by pumping an experimental drug into their bodies. A drug that has severe side effects and long term damage.

And don't kid yourself Jettsheep, once you comply, you are their eternal minion. They will mandate the boosters as well. And possibly at some point you will realize what you've done but it will be too late for that graceful liberal 180.

 



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Msg ID: 2705265 Has anyone here been put into the vaccine mandate position? +2/-0     
Author:bladeslap
9/28/2021 1:22:04 PM

Reply to: 2705244

"Experimental"?

It's already been FDA approved

HPV vaccine took 6 months to approve and there are mandates for it throughout schools for kids

This vaccine took more than 6 months to approve

 



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Msg ID: 2705504 You think it has, huh? +0/-3     
Author:observer II
9/30/2021 10:59:02 AM

Reply to: 2705265

Go ask for the FDA approved vaccine. Let me know what they say.

 

And let's not forget that the FDA and the CDC are in creepy Joe's pocket.

 

We have been lied to over and over by everyone of those people. They have no credibility with the AMerican people anymore.

 

And yes, it's experimental.

 

HPV is another shot you should NEVER make your kids take



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Msg ID: 2705274 Vaccination Mandates Are an American Tradition. So Is the Backlash. +3/-1     
Author:TheCrow
9/28/2021 2:17:10 PM

Reply to: 2705244

Even Donald J. Trump a/k/s "Heelspurs" is vaccinated. Post-infection, I might add. For once, he knows what he's talking about.

Get vaccinated. America needs you. The dialogue here helps boths sides form better-educated opionions. I wouldn't wish anybody the death that a covid 19 brings.

Argue your point but protect yourself.

ON POLITICS

The roots of U.S. vaccine mandates predate both the U.S. and vaccines.

A group of people observing a doctor as he vaccinates a man in an 1870s illustration called “Vaccinating the Poor,” by Solomon Eytinge Jr.
A group of people observing a doctor as he vaccinates a man in an 1870s illustration called “Vaccinating the Poor,” by Solomon Eytinge Jr.Credit...via National Library of Medicine
 
Sept. 9, 2021

Sign up here to get On Politics in your inbox every weekday.

As disease and death reigned around them, some Americans declared that they would never get vaccinated and raged at government efforts to compel them. Anti-vaccination groups spread propaganda about terrible side effects and corrupt doctors. State officials tried to ban mandates, and people made fake vaccination certificates to evade inoculation rules already in place.

The years were 1898 to 1903, and the disease was smallpox. News articles and health board reports describe crowds of parents marching to schoolhouses to demand that their unvaccinated children be allowed in, said Michael Willrich, a professor of history at Brandeis University, with some even burning their own arms with nitric acid to mimic the characteristic scar left by the smallpox vaccine.

“People went to some pretty extraordinary lengths not to comply,” said Professor Willrich, who wrote “Pox: An American History,” a book about the civil liberties battles prompted by the epidemic.

If it all sounds familiar, well, there is nothing new under the sun: not years that feel like centuries, not the wailing and gnashing of teeth over masks, and not vaccine mandates either.

As the coronavirus overwhelms hospitals across the South and more than 650,000 Americans — an increasing number of them children — lie dead, the same pattern is emerging. On Thursday, President Biden announced that he would move to require most federal workers and contractors to be vaccinated and, more sweepingly, that all employers with 100 or more employees would have to mandate vaccines or weekly testing. Colleges, businesses and local governments have enacted mandates at a steady pace, and conservative anger has built accordingly.

On Monday, Representative Jim Jordan, Republican of Ohio, tweeted that vaccine mandates were “un-American.” In reality, they are a time-honored American tradition.

But to be fair, so is public fury over them.

“We’re really seeing a lot of echoes of the smallpox era,” said Elena Conis, an associate professor and historian of medicine at the University of California, Berkeley. “Mandates elicit resistance. They always have.”

The roots of U.S. vaccine mandates predate both the U.S. and vaccines. The colonies sought to prevent disease outbreaks by quarantining ships from Europe and sometimes, in the case of smallpox, requiring inoculations: a crude and much riskier predecessor to vaccinations in which doctors rubbed live smallpox virus into broken skin to induce a relatively mild infection that would guard against severe infection later. They were a source of enormous fear and anger.

In January 1777, George Washington mandated inoculations for the soldiers under his command in the Continental Army, writing that if smallpox were to break out, “we should have more to dread from it, than from the Sword of the Enemy.” Notably, it was in large part the soldiers’ desires that overcame his resistance to a mandate.

“They were the ones calling for it,” said Andrew Wehrman, an associate professor of history at Central Michigan University who studies the politics of medicine in the colonial and revolutionary eras. “There’s no record that I have seen — and I’ve looked — of any soldier turning it down, protesting it.”

Buoyed by the success of the mandate, Washington wrote to his brother in June 1777 that he was upset by a Virginia law restricting inoculations. “I would rather move for a Law to compell the Masters of Families to inoculate every Child born within a certain limitted time under severe Penalties,” he wrote.

 

Over the next century, many local governments did exactly that. Professor Wehrman this week tweeted an example of what, in an interview, he said was a “ubiquitous” phenomenon: The health board in Urbana, Ohio, Jordan’s hometown, enacted a requirement in 1867 that in any future epidemic, “the heads of families must see that all the members of their families have been vaccinated.”

But by the end of the 1800s, opposition was louder and more widespread. Some states, particularly in the West, introduced laws prohibiting vaccine mandates. Others narrowly passed mandates after intense debate.

The reasons for resistance were myriad: Some Americans opposed mandates on the grounds of personal liberty; some because they believed lawmakers were in cahoots with vaccine makers; and some because of safety concerns that were, to be fair, more grounded in reality than the modern equivalent. Vaccines then were not regulated the way they are now, and there were documented cases of doses contaminated with tetanus.

The government’s response resembled what, today, are wild conspiracy theories. Contrary to the assertions of some on the far right, the Biden administration has never suggested going door to door to force people to take coronavirus vaccines. But in the 1890s and 1900s, that actually happened: Squads of men would enter people’s homes in the middle of the night, breaking down doors if necessary, to inject people with smallpox vaccines.

Legally speaking, the Supreme Court resolved the issue of mandatory vaccinations in 1905, ruling 7-2 in Jacobson v. Massachusetts that they were constitutional.

 

The Constitution “does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint,” Justice John Marshall Harlan, known for defending civil liberties, wrote. “Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”

 

In the court of public opinion, there was no such resolution.

The polio vaccine was less controversial, mainly because it wasn’t initially mandated and because it had been funded by a widely respected nonprofit: the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis, now called the March of Dimes. This reduced opposition based on mistrust of pharmaceutical companies, and most parents willingly got their children vaccinated. The measles vaccine, too, was not particularly controversial because mandates were not initially enforced.

“Nobody was enforcing vaccination, and so it simply didn’t elicit that mistrust,” Professor Conis said. In the smallpox era, by contrast, “skeptical people said, ‘Well, why are we doing this? It just benefits the companies making the vaccine and the doctors administering the vaccine, and why should we trust any of them?’”

But the fear and anger came roaring back with the introduction of childhood vaccination mandates in the 1970s. By 1980, all 50 states required schoolchildren to be vaccinated against an array of diseases.

None of it is new, but one thing distinguishes today’s anti-vaccination protesters from those of the past. The opposition was always political. It wasn’t always partisan.

“There are plenty of echoes today: There are liberty claims, there are strong sentiments about parental rights, there are concerns about the science, there are concerns about the profit involved,” Professor Willrich said. “But this party divide in terms of who is most likely to be hesitant or refuse a vaccine mandate is really, I think, something of our own 21st-century moment.”

Maggie Astor is a political reporter based in New York. Previously, she was a general assignment reporter and a copy editor for The Times and a reporter for The Record in New Jersey. @MaggieAstor

 


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Msg ID: 2705590 Vaccination Mandates Are an American Tradition. So Is the Backlash. +1/-2     
Author:observer II
10/1/2021 8:15:38 AM

Reply to: 2705274

And yet this Covid shot is not a vaccination.

They are trying to cure something that cannot be cured.

They keep comparing it to the polio vax, the measles vax, and several other vaxes. When you get those shots you won't get the virus.

For God's sake, they can't even cure the common cold. This Covid shot is nothing but a flu shot. Plain and simple. So tell me when the flu shot has been mandated????

Polio and the others are human to human viruses.

The Covid is human to animal which can not be cured. Blame the CHinese and our own people for developing this manmade virus that has changed the world.

This experiment has shown the world a whole lot. It has shown us all how complicite we become when our governments lie and coerce us into doing things we never had any intentions to do.

In case you weren't paying attention, we have failed miserably. Although liberals see it as a victory. But they won't as time passes.



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Msg ID: 2705599 How Well the Vaccine Works- Pfizer-BioNTech (COMIRNATY) vaccine was 95% eff +2/-1     
Author:TheCrow
10/1/2021 10:46:57 AM

Reply to: 2705590

I would rather be one of the 19 of 20 who are not clinically infected with covid than the 1 in 20 who is. Of course, the odds of surviving the infection are pretty good, it only kills 1.6% of the infected. 

If you're vaccinated, the mortality rate of 'breakthrough infections' is 0.0008% of those infected. Got that? You're 2000 times more likely to die of a covid infection if you aren't vaccinated.

If tetanus, polio, smallpox vaccinations are reasonable, then covid vaccination is infinitely more reasonable. tetanus exposure is probably pretty common but an average of only 10 Americans are killed annually; Polio has been eradicated and smallpox nealy so, the last case was seen in 1976 Bangladesh- vaccinations!

On the other hand, covid 19 is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans and infecting millions:

United States Coronavirus Cases: 44,315,162
Deaths: 716,849

It is estimated that 787,834 Americans will die of COVID-19 this year. The epidemic will continue into 2022.

 

How Well the Vaccine Works

  • Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech (COMIRNATY) vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.
  • In clinical trials, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was also highly effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in adolescents 12–15 years old, and the immune response in people 12–15 years old was at least as strong as the immune response in people 16–25 years old.
  • The vaccine was also highly effective in clinical trials at preventing COVID-19 among people of diverse age, sex, race, and ethnicity categories and among people with underlying medical conditions.
  • Evidence shows mRNA COVID-19 vaccines offer similar protection in real-world conditions as they have in clinical trial settings―reducing the risk of COVID-19, including severe illness by 90% or more, among people who are fully vaccinated.
  • CDC will continue to provide updates as we learn more.


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Msg ID: 2706140 Is that BS your pushing Fauchi endorsed???? +1/-2     
Author:observer II
10/5/2021 8:14:25 AM

Reply to: 2705599

Everything they have told us has been wrong.

Remember when you people said you would never take it because Trump said to.

And yet nothing changed except the administration. And now it's mandatory.

Gee, almost makes you wonder who to believe..........................huh?

LOL, this is a joke filled with delicious koolaide.

Drink up boys



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Msg ID: 2706185 How many FDA vaccinations have you taken? Why is this one different? (NT) +2/-0     
Author:TheCrow
10/5/2021 12:28:14 PM

Reply to: 2706140


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