Dear Mr Old guy

There comes a point where you have to accept reality for what it is.

Mr Trump unfrotunately lost. 

No, Joe Biden is not the worst president. He was the choice in lieu of Trump.

The country spoke. They didn't agree with you and me but they spoke. 

There was no "steal". There was no cospiracy. He lost fair and square.

I voted for Trump but I will no longer vote for him because of how he conducted himself post election. Democracy is more important than one man's quest to reclaim the white house.

I'm going to share something else with you. Trump does not even have an outside chance of winning in 2024. If you value the republican party and our democracy you should pray that someone else qualified runs.

Hope you take these thoughts into consideration.

I have accepted reality for what it is, the election was stolen and in some states easily proven that they conducted the election in violation of the constitution.

If you took a serious look at it you would determine that the left won thru the improper use of mail-in ballots.  The law suit by Texas and 26 other states had it right.  It claimed that 4 states elections were unconstitutional and therefore, Invail.

These states made election rules governing absetree ballots by "non-legislative actions"

.  
These states changed the statutes governing the signature verification process for absentee or mail-in ballots.

 These states counted just about any ballot regardless if it was a legal ballot or not.  

This reduction of ballot verification was done in just about every state (was easily proven in 4 states) and produced many fraudulent ballots, that got counted but never verified.

Ask? We're did all those additional votes come from.  For some reason millions more people voted for Biden than thruout the history of the US ever voted before.  I do agree that that election had a great interest and could have produced more votes, but not in the numbers it did.  We just had some pretty major elections in two states, both of those elections had more than normal number of voters, but a  total of 2.5 million less voters than the Trump vs Biden election.  I ask you, where did 2.5 millions voters In just two states go?

I did like Trump, but I also like many of the other republicans.  We shall wait and see what the next election will bring.  Hopefully many of the states clear up the election laws and mail-in ballots become verified in some positive way and elections become fair and honest.

Luc-Bona, I do want to thank you for posting a post that contains reasonable thoughts to think about.

The test for constitutionality is in the courts. You are entitled to believe what you want but the courts ultimately decide what was "against the law" and "against the constitution".

I hated Trump but I liked most of his policies. He's a horrible leader but I liked his policies betters than the radical left. 

The election was not stolen. You need to quit that narrative. No cases had any merit and all the courts threw out every case for lack of evidence.

That's where you and I differ. You're digging in and I'm accepting the reality of what happened. Don't let someone else create your narrative. 

Lets take your hypthesis about the number of ballots and what's valid and what's not. What's to say that there wasn't more fraud on the republican side than the democratic side if any of your statemetns hold water? You and I both don't know that.

I think there are plenty of other Republicans who would be far better for the country than Trump. Trump is not a leader, but I didn't have a real choice. 

But, the courts did not do their job at looking into the issues.  without going over it case by case.  NO court did the witnesses of fraud, people that filled out over 3200 affidaviit's , get questioned under oath.  The courts in many cases accepted just what the election officials said.  On the issue of unconstitutional election rules, even the Supreme Court ruled not to view the issues.  The courts did not do their job, I personally believe because everyone knew the fraud was so large, nobody waned to open up Pandora's box.

If there was fraud regardless of what side did it, it needs to be weeded out.  You are right as long as mail-in ballots are not verified, we do not know how the election would have changed.  What we need is a fair and honest election, not what we got!

What if this last election issues would have been handled like elections in the past.  Are you old enough to have been around during the hanging chad issues.  There were some law suits over process items, but both republicans and democrats worked out issues.  All the Chads on the ballots were inspected and verified by all sides.  Democrats and republicans worked together to find a honest resolution, the Supreme Court made a ruling.  Compare history with what happened this last election. A friend of mine explains it this way:

Republicans ask "what about this, what about that?"

Demorats say " No, No, Fu-k you, Fu-k you"

His point , the democrats did not ever come to the table to hep resolve any issue!

Do you realize that a majority of citizens believe the election was stolen in some way the other.  The link for that poll is down in the posts someplace. So I am not the only person that thinks like this. I blame the democrats for not working to resolve any of the election issues

Yes! It is a waste of time to keep posting about this!  No one will change their mind, we will just need to hope the country can make it until Biden is gone.

The majority of citizens do not believe the election is stolen. That's where you and I differ. Most Americans believe it was a rightful election. Is it possible there were pockets of hanky-panky, yes. But even Trump's own election czar said it was the most secure election to date.

The courts did do their job. For you to say that dozens of courts all ignored the law and ignored evidence is saying there was some conspiracy. Maybe they didn't have the outcome you wanted? The supreme court also looked at the raw evidence and decided the evidence did not warrant a hearing.

It sounds to me that you are fairly pissed off at the outcome, but you cannot lose your rational thinking. We have laws. Laws are interpreted by the courts. To say that maybe one or two judges made a mistake is one thing. To say that 50-100 judges all messed up is far-fetched. I think they know the law and the rules of evidence better than you and I. If there was merit to any of the cases they would have ruled as such.

There was no fraud found. The justice department looked into it. The courts looked into it. The recounts looked into it. No fraud found. It's over and it's time to move on. For you to say "The election was stolen" because you "think" there may had been fraud, not even sure what side it is on, to me says you're not takin an honest look at things.

You could just say "the election may have been stolen". but that's not where you're going. You're saying that there is fraud and it's all on the part of the democrats. That's doesn't help your cause and argument. It's possible that there was more fraud on the republicans side rather than the democrats side but your argument never even went there.

Polls indicate that a majority of voting citizens believe the election was stolen.  (Link was below).

At no time in US History has anything like this happen before, at NO time has this many citizens rejected the honesty of a election.  Just the pure number of people that differ in belief than you should make you rethink your position.  But it appears it will not.  You referred you were a republican,  but yu don't believe what republicans believe, the mail-in ballots produced a opportunity for fraud and people took advantage ot it.

You have expressed much of the opinion of the news media of the left.  After 5 years of fake news, why would you express the same fake ideas?

I searched the internet for polls.

Public Supports Both Early Voting And Requiring Photo ID to Vote | Monmouth University Polling Institute

1/3rd of americans believe it, and that mostly comprises Republicans. 

I think you're letting emotions get in the way of rationality.

You did not search very much on the internet.

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/rasmussen-survey-biden-election/2021/10/11/id/1040031/

I believe a Rasmussen poll has some value.

But let us assume  that you are right about 1/3 of Americans believe it.

STILL NOT A GOOD NUMBER!  Something is wrong!

Mr Old Guy

I look at clear hard cold facts. If Trump continues to tell people he was cheated, his base will believe him. 

There is zero evidence of it. Every attempt to show it has been disproven. Every recount has shown the same.

At some point, it's more you want to believe something that can't and won't be proven. It's a choice you ultimately have to make.

Look I said before I think Trump is an dirt-bag liar but I prefer his policies. That's the only reason I voted for him. Do I believe him? No, I'm smarter than that. He is a crook and will lie to your face to get what he wants, not what you want.

The question is since we all know this about him why do you believe his claims that have been repeatedly disproven?

Think about this too. Trump is on a marketing campaign to make people believe the election was "stolen". No new evidence has come out that there was any fraud, so why would people's opinions change? Simple. His marketing to you to make you believe what he wants to make you believe. You need to know when someone is pulling your strings and this is a perfect example of that.

In the face of zero evidence, you believe his claims. In fact every claim he made was squashed, yet he keeps inventing new ones. Gosh.

One thing that polls show is that there are a lot of gullible people out there.

There has been several issues of election illegal and dishonest actions that are proven.  I posted four a while back just in Georgia.  Even the audit in Arizona uncovered enough fraud to change the election.  But, as long as the issues are ignored, they will stay ignored.  It is just the way it is, when the left is in charge and the major news is the propagada arm of the left.  These issues are never talked about, let alone anyone doing something!

I believe just the unconstitutional acts that are proven to be true, that the Supreme Court ignored, are sufficient to prove the election was stolen.

Look at your post. "zero evidence " You know that is not true, there was lots of proven evidence.  In fact is the major news changed that statement from NO EVIDENCE FOUND, to NOT ENOUGH FOUND, what was found was all just ignored, when ignored how d they know how much!

If you are really a Republican then you are totally aware that the standards enforced on the right and left are two different standards.  

Zero evidence found 

If there was credible evidence, there would have been legal action.

Zero evidence. If what you were saying was credible, Trump would had been in court or his supporters.

Here is what the legal system considers evidence:

Standards of Evidence. In any type of legal case, there are different standards of evidence by which the case is proved. The different standards are: preponderance of the evidence; clear and convincing evidence; beyond a reasonable doubt.

Does your "Evidence" meet any of that? Apparently not. 

The other thing that makes it clear this is a stunt is that Trump warned everyone before the election that if he loses, it's because it was rigged. That pretty much dismissed his claim to a rigged election since he warned you he would go down this path.

 Old guy, it didn't happen and it wasn't rigged and no court, conservative or liberal, all courts threw out the cases. All courts

Georgia Judge Dismisses Trump's Election Lawsuit | Law & Crime (lawandcrime.com)

No Evidence Of Fraud: Judge Throws Out Trump Campaign Lawsuit In Georgia (hillreporter.com)

In blistering ruling, judge throws out Trump suit in Pa.

In blistering ruling, judge throws out Trump suit in Pa. (apnews.com)

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — A federal judge issued a scathing order Saturday dismissing the Trump campaign’s futile effort to block the certification of votes in Pennsylvania, shooting down claims of widespread irregularities with mail-in ballots.

The case was always a long shot to stop President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration, but it was President Donald Trump’s best hope to affect the election results through the courts, mostly because of the number of electoral votes, 20, at stake in Pennsylvania. His personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, stepped into a courtroom for the first time in decades to argue the case this past week.

U.S. District Court Judge Matthew Brann wrote in his order that Trump had asked the court to disenfranchise almost 7 million voters.

“One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption,” Brann wrote, so much that the court would have no option but to stop the certification even though it would impact so many people. “That has not happened.”

----------

This is what we are talking about. Trump brought zero to the table in trying to "prove" any fraud. It couldn't be proven because it didn't happen

I wish you woudl come to your senses Old guy

There was plenty of evidence, it was just ignored, and you know it, so Bladeslap stop trying to defend a corrupt system.  You can believe what you want, but deep down you know it was stolen.  I want to make two points, with a question for you.

POINT ONE:

I have always made the point that the election was lillegal because it volatiles the constitution.  I have made that point over and over.  No one on the left has ever addressed why that statement is NOT TRUE! NO ONE!

Please tell me why the you think the election complied with the constitution.

POINT TWO:

The Arizona audit found items that have not been debunked, even with massive campaign to do so.  These items have basically been ignored.  Some Arizona state senators have tried to have the election decertified.  The last explanation that has come out of the state is that they have NO PROCEDURE in state law to do that!

So here we have a state that has evidence that Biden did not win that state.  But it looks like they will not do anything.  The pressure to ignore evidence has over come the need to have a fair election!

Interesting but contradictory points- The courts can't be trusted but the election issues need to be raised in courts.

It's intersting that you conceal your attack on American election institutions and methods by insisting that they are corrupt. No responsible state election superviser has alleged substantial issues in their results. They all claim election integrity and credibility. I suspect that each knows their election laws better than you, so I will rely on their assertions.

The fact is that Donald Trump's assertion asvances only Donald Trump, not America or Americans. Trump is historicallly divisive, portraying himself as the victim. A substantial number of Americans are powerless in the current political system and resent it. Trump presented valid issues but also advanced an idiot remedy- stop being the victim of 'the establishment' and submit to me- president for life. The "Stop the Steal" directly advances that cause without any substantial evidence.

"You can believe what you want, but deep down you know it was stolen."

 I know no such thing, you are absolutely wrong. I do not believe that the election was stolen deep down or any other way. I think an Idiot programed you and the rest of your Cultist brothers by telling you over and over for more than a year that if he didn't win it would be because the election was stolen, and as soon as he lost what happened?

You parrots started singing the "It Was Stolen" song right on queue, he played you fools and you took the bait hook line and sinker... 

It reminds me of 'the knife in the back' Hitler alleged. I also suspect that January 6 was an attempt to 'burn the Reichstag'. 

Can you say "Chancellor Trump"? Racial purity by 'controlling the border', limiting the franchise to 'qualified' citizens?

You are not the "Judge" nor are you the constitutional lawyer or scholar. You dom't get to talk in absolutes about these things since you have zero education in it - Sorry, those are facts.

JUDGES, conservative and liberal, INTERPRET the law. 

They do not agree with you.

The law does not agree with anything you are saying. You therefore come off as a cospiracy theorist. 

Sorry, you can have your opionion that you believe based on your opioon bla bla bla, but don't dictate to us on here that your view of the world is an objective view. It's not. It's your personal slanted opinion that fulfills your world view.

I asked you a question that you do not answer, have never answered, apparently will never answer.

Because to answer it correctly you would need to admit what those states did during the election was in violation of our constitution.

But you can go on the attack and make ridiculous claims, even claim that I am limited to what I can post about, basically I do not have the right of free speech.

QAnoner.

Judge Dismisses Fulton County Ballot Review Case in Georgia

A judge has dismissed a lawsuit that alleged fraud in Georgia’s most populous county during the 2020 election.

By Associated Press

Oct. 13, 2021, at 3:18 p.m.

Judge Dismisses Fulton County Ballot Review Case in Georgia

FILE - In this Saturday, Nov. 14, 2020, file photo, election workers in Fulton County began working through a recount of ballots in Atlanta. Investigators with Georgia’s secretary of state’s office have not found any evidence to substantiate claims that fraudulent or counterfeit ballots were counted in Fulton County during the 2020 general election. Henry County Superior Court Chief Judge Brian Amero is presiding over a lawsuit that alleges fraud in Fulton County during last year’s election. (Hyosub Shin/Atlanta Journal-Constitution via AP, File) THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

By KATE BRUMBACK, Associated Presa

ATLANTA (AP) — A judge on Wednesday dismissed a lawsuit alleging fraud in Georgia's most populous county during the 2020 election. The suit sought a review of some 147,000 absentee ballots to see if any were illegitimate.

The lawsuit was originally filed in December and alleged evidence of fraudulent ballots and improper ballot counting in Fulton County. It was filed by nine Georgia voters and spearheaded by Garland Favorito, a longtime critic of Georgia’s election systems.

Henry County Superior Court Chief Judge Brian Amero's order dismissing the case says the voters who brought the lawsuit “failed to allege a particularized injury” and therefore lacked the standing to claim that their state constitutional rights to equal protection and due process had been violated.

Amero also noted that Georgia's secretary of state's office had provided a “substantive and detailed response” to his request for an update on any investigations into allegations of fraudulent or counterfeit ballots in Fulton County.

Favorito expressed frustration after the ruling, saying his team had “prepared diligently to show the evidence of our allegations” at a hearing the judge had previously scheduled for Nov. 15. He said an appeal is planned.

“All citizens of Georgia have a right to know whether or not counterfeit ballots were injected into the Fulton Co. election results, how many were injected, where they came from and how we can prevent it from happening again in future elections," Favorito wrote in an email. "It is not adequate for any organizations to secretly tell us there are no counterfeit ballots and refuse to let the public inspect them.”

Fulton County Board of Commissioners Chairman Robb Pitts celebrated the lawsuit's dismissal.

“Today was a win for democracy," he said in an emailed statement. "This lawsuit was the result of the Big Lie, which is nothing more than a meritless conspiracy theory being spread by people who simply cannot accept that their side lost. Its defeat here today should echo throughout the nation."

Angered by his narrow loss in a traditionally red state, former President Donald Trump focused his fury on Georgia, and particularly on Fulton County. He and his allies harshly criticized top Republican elected officials in the state for not acting to overturn his loss.

The ballot review effort in Fulton County was one of a number of similar reviews and audits that Trump supporters and others pursued, alleging fraud during the 2020 general election. State and federal election officials have repeatedly said there was no evidence of widespread fraud. 

Though he was not directly involved in the Georgia lawsuit, Trump issued a statement Wednesday blasting the judge's ruling.

The lawsuit filed by Favorito and others relied heavily on sworn affidavits from several people who participated in a hand recount of the ballots. They said they saw absentee ballots that looked as if they had been marked by machine rather than by hand and had not been creased as they would have been to fit in an envelope.

It also included previously debunked allegations that election workers at State Farm Arena in Atlanta pulled “suitcases” of ballots from under a table after observers and members of the media left for the night and scanned the ballots multiple times.

The lawsuit did not seek to change Georgia's election results, which were certified weeks after the election. Following an initial count of the ballots and before certification, the state did a full hand recount of the presidential race to satisfy a new audit requirement in state law. A second machine recount was done at the request of Trump's campaign.

The lawsuit claimed that a failure by Fulton County officials to follow state law and properly supervise election workers resulted in counterfeit ballots being added and counted, which diluted the votes of qualified Georgia voters. It argued that, without corrective action by the court, this would happen again in future elections.

But the judge found that “regardless of the veracity of these allegations,” the voters who filed the lawsuit failed to allege that they have been affected personally and individually, and therefore lack standing to sue.

Lawyers with the state attorney general’s office on Tuesday filed a response brief on behalf of the secretary of state that details investigative steps taken in response to the claims. Investigators interviewed witnesses and examined about 1,000 absentee ballots and ballot images. They did not uncover any ballots matching those described by the people who swore affidavits or that otherwise appeared to be fraudulent or counterfeit, the brief says.

Investigators examined the ballots in the batches and box identified by one person who participated in the hand count, but all had been creased and none appeared to have been marked by a computer. The woman then told investigators she may have been mistaken and gave them another box number, but investigators determined that the box-batch combination she cited didn’t exist.

Other hand count participants told investigators they also had seen suspicious-looking ballots, but they had not noted the box or batch numbers.

Investigators also found that security video confirmed the “suitcases” at State Farm Arena were normal ballot bins that election workers had stowed under tables when they thought they were done for the night and then pulled back out when they were told to keep counting.

Copyright 2021 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Tags: Associated Press, courts, elections, crime, lawsuits, Georgia