Msg ID:
2712764 |
Calling Old guy out for the hypocrite that he is... +2/-0
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Author:bladeslap
12/6/2021 9:03:41 AM
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So, when I mentioned how poorly the economy did (knowing full well the pandemic hurt him), I did that purposely...
Why?
Remember the economic crisis of 2008/2009? Old guy and Obsy keep blaming Obama for a massive debt, among other things, not taking into account the economic contraction from that
I know full well that there were things outside of Trump's control as a result of the pandemic, but if you're goign to acnolwedge that, then you better start acknowledging the financial crisis in 2008 where Obama INHERITED a massive contraction.
You can't have it both ways...But you want to |
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Msg ID:
2712766 |
Calling Old guy out for the hypocrite that he is... +0/-2
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Author:Old Guy
12/6/2021 9:10:03 AM
Reply to: 2712764
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please explain! What are you implying by using the word contraction? A contraction is combining two words into one. |
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Msg ID:
2712775 |
Do you ever get stuff correct +1/-2
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Author:Old Guy
12/6/2021 10:45:55 AM
Reply to: 2712764
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Obama did not INHERIT a nation crisis, it was basically over by the time he took office, it was officially over a few months after he as in office (June 09). The problems and issues were alread solved, all he had to do was sit back and let the free market do what the free market does best, improve! But NO! he produced the worst recovery in the history of the US. We lost our excellent credit rating, keep interest rates near zero, had to have quantitive Easing to keep the economy afloat, and made a lot of minimum wage jobs as factories moved overseas.
Obama increased or debt by the most dollar-wise amount ever, 8.6 Trillion dollars, the debt was increased by 74%. Now I do think Trump spent to much, but his increase was only 33.1%. Now compare that to the increase of 74%, who do you think spent more?
Now, at least when you try to make a point you should understand the facts. |
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Msg ID:
2712782 |
Do you ever get stuff correct +2/-0
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Author:TheCrow
12/6/2021 12:04:43 PM
Reply to: 2712775
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"Obama did not INHERIT a nation crisis, it was basically over by the time he took office, it was officially over a few months after he as in office (June 09). The problems and issues were alread solved, all he had to do was sit back and let the free market do what the free market does best, improve! But NO! he produced the worst recovery in the history of the US. We lost our excellent credit rating, keep interest rates near zero, had to have quantitive Easing to keep the economy afloat, and made a lot of minimum wage jobs as factories moved overseas."
GDP was still trending downward at Obama's inaugaration. That economic contraction was directly influenced by Bush 43's push to expand home ownership with the "American Dream Downpayment Act" reducing the homeowner's 'skin in the game'. Speculativel buying of houses exploded, people buying and flipping more and more expensive houses in a frenzy- "Housing always appeciates, you can't lose money"... until the bubble burst and the value of all those subsidized houses and underwritten mortgages collapsed.
Out of that, came a real threat that short-term bank-lending, "over-nights", would collapse initiating a severe "Great Depression" type economy. To Bush 43's credit, the recovery program was started by the time Obama was inagarated. That was not a slam dunk success, but Obama took the polical risk of ccontinuing the effort. Had it not been successful, the program would have been a 'failed Bush program' that he had continued.
To continue that effort required deficit spending, just as Trump's Covid stimulus program required borrowing against the economy's future to kick-start the 2020 economy.
'old guy' You speak out of both sides of your mouth when you credit the free market economy and blame the government for increasing minimum wage jobs and sending them overseas. Production, jobs, are off-shored when Americans aren't willing to work and produce competitively priced wares. When the technology or an imaginative entrepreneur figures out how to cut shipping costs and keep production oversight here in America, it happens and is happening. Until then, sweatshops will be in overseas in smaller and smaller economies. Remember when 'made in Japan' was derogatory? Then 'made in China'? Vietnam? Economic expansion, especially sending jobs Americans don't want to places where the enrich the poor is good strategy. Eventually the poor get rich and less interested in expanding by conquest.
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Msg ID:
2712786 |
You really do not know do you, +0/-3
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Author:Old Guy
12/6/2021 12:48:00 PM
Reply to: 2712782
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The crisis was called the Subprime loan crisis , not the American Dream Downpayment Crisis.
the reason they call it that is because that is was it was! Given to you from the democrats! Get it right,
The Subprime loan crisis was officially declared over in June , a couple of months after Obama took office! the issues were already solved. If Obama would have done nothing we would have been better off.
I have never read such Bull Shit about jobs overseas. The goverment minimum wages have very little to do with it. It all about taxes and regulations. Example Bell Helicopters did not move to Canada because of wages, Canadian wages are all Union and higher, they moved because of taxes and regulations that made production cost more.
How old are you? In the past did you ever pay attention to what was going on? I really think you have no idea about what you are posting about. Really you claim you are a conservative, but you don't understand it, and then you posted a article about how socialism helped our economy. Get real! |
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Msg ID:
2712789 |
"You really do not know do you..." Exactly, YOU do not KNOW. +3/-0
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Author:TheCrow
12/6/2021 1:16:21 PM
Reply to: 2712786
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Sub-prime mortgages had been a problem since at least the first Bush administration. It had been controlled by policies that required extensive documentation and selection of people who really, really wanted to live in the mortgaged assett. Bush 43 expanded the program by reducing the requirements, especially documentation and period of residency. It took four years of speculation for investers to recognise that residential real estate was risky and or to labor intensive for them.
With those changes, specuation on housing expanded, people buying 'investment' houses as fast as they coould process the paperwork, reduced by Bush. Inevitably, the market peaked and prices fell, those spec houses were underwater mortgage wise. The chart below approximates the issue. Not that it takes 10+ years for the market to recover to pre-2007 levels. Those speculating on quick profitable flips faced a choice- rent with a mortgage prohibiting that, or reduce the continuing loss of ownerchip.
Mortgages and derivatives are a substantial part of investment portfolios and are usually leveraged. A drop in the value of the basic asset class requires investments, other assets and/or cash to maintain positions in borrowing.
Bush 43's signature on the American Dream Downpayment program expanded the subprime market substantially, so the the fall in prices initiated a cash and credit crisis in the banks.
I have never read such Bull Shit about jobs overseas. The goverment minimum wages have very little to do with it. It all about taxes and regulations.
Only you mentioned minimum wage as a factor, I did not.
The good little Triumpist that you are, you are against protecting workers, job safety, aren't you?
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Msg ID:
2712795 |
What a bunch of Bull Shit +0/-2
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Author:Old Guy
12/6/2021 2:15:51 PM
Reply to: 2712789
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Do you realize I am in the leading business? And have been for many years.
You do not know shit. I get real tired of this, time.after time someone comes up with some hair brain idea how it was some republicans fault. It does not even sound reasonable that Bush did this so the OUTCOME of purchasing a home was equal, does that even sound right to you? Your complete post is Bull Shit. Subprime loans started back with Clinton and continued on year after year reducing requirements to purchase a home. Trying to produce the outcome that everybody owned a home. It even got to the point that the buyers income did not even require verification. Bush even got concerned and had hearing just before the crash and was lied to by Barney Frank. The reason Barney did not run again.
The American Dream Downpayment Act only aimed at 40,000 families a year, all within the FHA programs. and the down payment was saved with help that normally came from a non-profit organization. The required down payment was not reduced by anyone. It is similar to a 529 Plan, the American Dream Down Payment Act would help homebuyers save the 20% for a down payment. It had NO effect on the market crash!
The Market crash was totally because the government put their noise into the middle of free enterprise. Goverment only needs to regulate rules that are fair for all, make access available to all, but what we have are a bunch of democrats who what to regulate the outcome. In the case of subprime loans it was an attempt to put people that could not afford a home into a home, they were legislating the outcome. Just on the face of it it sounds like a democratic plan, not a Republican plan. It came from the left, they were responsible. |
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Msg ID:
2712796 |
What a bunch of Bull Shit +3/-0
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Author:TheCrow
12/6/2021 2:32:17 PM
Reply to: 2712795
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Here's what the American Dream Downpayment Act actually did, See that spike in subprime mortgages with the Dream Down Payment Act?
Compare that to the subsequent fall in home prices, when the speculation shrank.
December 2009
Where should I look to find statistics on the share of subprime mortgages to total mortgages?
For information on subprime mortgages, as well as mortgages in general, look to data published by the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA)—a trade association that sells market research and data on its web site. The MBA data are often used to estimate subprime loans’ share of total mortgages. You can also visit the Press Center section of the MBA Web site and look for the latest free National Delinquency Survey (NDS) results.
Share of Subprime Mortgages to Total Mortgages
Subprime mortgages are residential real estate loans that are generally considered to be higher risk. These loans are not guaranteed by the Federal Housing Administration (FHA). The MBA publishes quarterly data on loans outstanding and loan performance for subprime and other types of loans in its NDS. According to the MBA, the NDS is
“…based on a sample of more than 44 million mortgage loans serviced by mortgage companies, commercial banks, thrifts, credit unions and others, NDS provides quarterly delinquency and foreclosure statistics at the national, regional and state levels. Delinquency and foreclosure measures are broken out into loan type (prime, subprime, VA and FHA) and fixed and adjustable rate products. At each geographic classification, there are 7 measures: total delinquencies, delinquency by past due category (30-59 days, 60-89 days and 90 days and over), new foreclosures, foreclosure inventory and seriously delinquent. The total number of loans serviced each quarter, as compiled through the survey, is also included in the data.”
From these data we are able to derive the share of subprime loans by dividing the number of subprime loans being serviced by the total number of loans being serviced. Note that the very sharp rise in the subprime share in 2003, shown in Chart 1, in part reflects an increase in coverage by the MBA survey. Nevertheless, other evidence indicates that the share of subprime borrowers rose substantially in the latter stages of the recent housing boom that extended into 2005. Based on the MBA data, subprime loans as a share of total residential mortgage loans reached a high of about 14 percent in the second quarter of 2007. Since mid-2007, the number of subprime loans has dropped substantially, owing to their high default rate. Based on third quarter 2009 data from the MBA, 17.4 percent of subprime loans were “seriously delinquent”: 90 days or more past due or in foreclosure.
Also note that since mid-2007 originations of new subprime loans have all but dried up. You can view this at the FRBSF website, The Economy: Crisis & Response listed below. In late 2009 the main channel of mortgage credit for higher risk borrowers was through the FHA guarantee program. Information regarding FHA mortgages is available on the HUD web site.
Additional Resources
For more on subprime mortgages and the mortgage markets see:
Avery, Robert, Bevoort, Kenneth and Canner, Glenn. “The 2007 HMDA Data.” The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, The Federal Reserve Bulletin. (Dec 2008). Pages 107A-146A.
Furlong, Frederick and Krainer, John. 2007 “The subprime mortgage market: national and Twelfth District developments”. FRBSF. Annual Report. p. 6-17.
Doms, Mark, Furlong, Frederick and Krainer, John. “House prices and subprime mortgage delinquencies”. FRBSF. FRBSF Economic Letter. 2007-14. (Jun 8, 2007).
Doms, Mark and Krainer, John. “Innovations in Mortgage Markets and Increased Spending on Housing.” FRBSF. Working paper. 2007-05.
Krainer, John. “Mortgage Choice and the Pricing of Fixed-Rate and Adjustable-Rate Mortgages.” FRBSF. FRBSF Economic Letter. 2010-03 (Feb. 1).
Krainer, John. “Recent Developments in Mortgage Finance.” FRBSF. FRBSF Economic Letter. 2009-33. (Oct. 26, 2009).
The Economy: Crisis & Response, Web site, Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco.
End Notes
1. http://www.mbaa.org/ResearchandForecasts/ProductsandSurveys/NationalDelinquencySurvey.htm
Now, compare that to this chart:
Both peaked and then fell off in 2007-2008. Less readily available mortgage money, especially speculative money and prices react. The banks facing an assett issue, reduced credit and reduced or tightened credit meaning that less money is in circulation and a recession occurs.
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Msg ID:
2712804 |
Please move to a subject you know about, if there is one! +0/-3
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Author:Old Guy
12/6/2021 4:09:07 PM
Reply to: 2712796
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I cannot keep replying to this ignorant crap.
one more time,
American Dream Downpayment Act is FHA, a full down payment is made. The borrower meets FHA requirements and FHA insures the loan. It is not a junk loan. They are still in effect.
Subprime loans have a borrower that is considered a risk, normally does not meet requirements for a normal loan. Why do you think they are called Subprime, could that be because they are much less secure then a primary type loan? As long as they were marketable in the secondary money market they were OK. But once the foreclosure rate started to increase, they became junk. They are not allowed in the marketplace, once the crash they were immediately stopped.
All of the issues developed over the crash come from these subprime junk loans. Or a better way to explain it is some idiot democrats trying to control the outcome of people's lives! |
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Msg ID:
2712807 |
One more point +0/-3
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Author:Old Guy
12/6/2021 4:27:37 PM
Reply to: 2712796
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You clam the jump in loans in 2003 was because of American Dream Downpayment Act is just more BS.
the Act only has about 40,000 loans a year, could not possibly produce that jump in loans. But I bet it was because the interest rate went down to 1% on a home loans. |
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Msg ID:
2712853 |
Moron +0/-0
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Author:bladeslap
12/7/2021 7:53:26 AM
Reply to: 2712782
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Hey Moron,
Did you forget about Unemployment?
The trillions lost?
The 401ks obliterated?
You're truly a moron .. |
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Msg ID:
2712852 |
That's why in my mind I consider you a Moron +0/-0
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Author:bladeslap
12/7/2021 7:52:27 AM
Reply to: 2712775
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Only a moron would make that statement...
Unemployment climbed to 10 perecent
8 Trillion erased from the market
Multiple financial companies went bankrupt
Close to 10 trillion erased from people's net worth including home values, retirement account
Led to more than 2 trillion loss in global economic growth
Countless people lost their houses...
Countless people defaulted...
And ya, it was "officially over"? Sure, like a light switch going off..
You're a moron
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