The rules are at the top 

You can conjure a message without calling people idiots ...

You're welcome to join the fray, but devoid of name calling, however you want to justify your use of it.

Saying "the left is lost" might make you feel better, but isn't helpful for engaging in any useful chat.

Love you Shooty, but times are changing now. It's either we clean this up or I take it offline permanently.

Yes, times are changing, Buddha.

Tyranny is the norm these days. 

even more  "thought police" are needed, 

while the radical left and their "not so smart" supporters 

have reduced our government to a laughing stock! 

and you voted for it...

when we callEd you on the stupidity of it

and we name it what it is

you want to moderate the discussion by eliminating

"name calling"

Well, that wont work, Buddha. 

when the opposition goes silent

it's dangerous for the future of the Republic. 

Good Luck, Lefty humans!

(you're gonna need it! )

--SS

You're free to come and go as you please as well as hold the opinions that you do. I know you have your convictions, but I also have mine; and they're at least as strong as yours.

We don't have to debate the psychology and behavior behind anger, labels, and projection.

It takes more energy and time to skillfully debate and think through a persuasive argument than just mud-slinging and character assassination.

Saying "you are lost" and "it's all your fault you voted for it"...We know you are aligned with a certain political philosophy and ideology. Those statements are like empty calories. You know we don't agree with you, but perhaps we can discuss certain points and support them with facts or what we believe substantiates our argument.

Mud-slinging opposition points and sarcasm do nothing but feed egos and accentuate anger and resentment. No more on here. I'm done with it and most people on here are as well.

You've added quite a bit on here over the years and I hope you stay so we can share each other's views, devoid of an injection of our egos...

I still remember the petro-dollar discussion you started a while back ... It was a good one.

I have no problem presenting a reasonable argument, neither do my fellow sea creatures and their human colleagues here -- Sir OII and Old Guy.

I appears to me you have just silenced Jetsheep.. he can't seem to carry a reasoned argument in a bucket. Crowbot is a driveby, cut and paste someone else's article from some biased RINO site. 

Lets expand on your rules of debate, Buddha. You and your fellow leftists like to question the sources we post and instead you rely on MSM .. we consider that fake news 85% of the time.

How does one debate a subject if their opponent rejects not only their point of view, but the credibility of the sources which inform it?

its like trying to convince atheist God exists, by quoting a Bible that same atheist considers a

"Pre scientific mythological record of a 5000 year old blood cult"

Thats about as far apart the left and right are these days 

PS thanks for changing the picture. "Brandon" wasnt gettin it.

Ok, you proposed this change, you start:

Do you regret voting for Biden, given the complete disgrace this administration has become?

Explsin your point of view. We will debate. 

This ought to be fun. The left is compromisedby the fact they embraced a lie.

The truth may yet set you free, Buddha.

--SS

I 100% wholehartedly am happy with my voting decision.

The same way most of the country still views Trump as a disgrace, you feel the same for Biden.

Having someone in office who can be trusted and is doing things not for re-election, but for the good of the country, is refreshing.

He's not all good and not all bad, but I think it would be prudent for us to wait for more than just 1 year to figure out how things are going. 

Sure, there were mistakes made with the pull-out. Were there other factors involved? Yes. 

It's one thing for someone to make a mistake because they either didn't have all the data or were surprised...It's another thing when someone has the data and misleads the country. That's the issue the anti-trump vote has with Trump. He mislead the country time and time again about the pandemic and is responsible for thousands of deaths that did not have to happen.

The early part of the pandemic, people were dropping like flies from Covid. Hospitals ran out of places to store the dead bodies. As one of my friends, a surgeon in NY told me, "It was a war zone and we had no place to put dead bodies. They were in teh hallways at times". 

We needed good leadership then and we didn't have it. He even admitted that he "Played down the pandemic". HIs reasoning was he didn't want people to panic. Playing it down was the worst thing to do...We had a disproportionate death rate in this country compared to other countries, and in large part, I attribute it to him knowingly giving a distorted view of the situation.

Next, as we learn more and more about the Jan 6 situation, we'll find out where his interests really are. In himself or the country ... I think you know my opionon on that.

Trump has been the only president in our lifetime that actually did what he said he would do.

Biden has lied every step of the way. Mandates are unconstitutional (he said it), then he mandated them. BIG LIE

Biden's entire campaign was about covid. He VERY CLEARLY stated: "I WILL NOT SHUT DOWN THE COUNTRY"....."I WILL NOT SHUT DOWN THE ECONOMY"......"I WILL SHUT DOWN THE VIRUS".

Well budha, HE DID SHUT DOWN THE COUNTRY..........HE DID SHUT DOWN THE RCONOMY........AND HE DID NOT EVEN PUT A DENT IN THE VIRUS.

You claim all these deaths are because Trump was a bad leader. I laugh. Trump had about 200,000 alledged deaths (not accurate) when Biden made that very clear statement:, "ANT PRESIDENT WITH THAT MANY DEATHS SHOULD NOT BE PRESIDENT". 

Biden made that statement. he created the bench mark. And there are far more deaths under BIden then Trump. PLease explain that little gem.

And let's not forget that Trump didn't have that covid shot and all the data Biden had from the beginning. Biden has been an utter embarrassing failure.

Families have been destroyed because of Biden. 

Gas prices are well over $1 more than a year ago.

Illegal immigrants are flooding this country causing billions in taxpayer dollars. No borders. In fact Texas is funding their own wall because our government has failed. How sad is that?

Store shelves are empty

Cost of living is through the roof

Unemployment is through the roof

People aren't even looking anymore

This list is endless budha, and it's only been 11 months.

And you are happy with this?????????????

Suggest you try to post without being so emotional; look at facts

1. Biden has ZERO to do with fuel prices - That is a republican talking point. Gas prices are sky high through the entire world. I get it, you have nothing else to attack him on, so you have to latch onto a republican talking point.

2. Please find any proof that Biden is somehow responsible for gas prices going up WORLD WIDE

3. Gas prices started going up while Trump was in office and continued rising

4. They are a function of supply & demand - Demand went way up when the pandemic ended and OPEN decided against increasing production

So, please provide is some proof that Biden is resposible for prices rising

Again, inflation overall has nothign to do with the president. It is happening throughout the world as a result of the opening of the economy.

You can keep repeating the marketing points of republicans...you have that right. Inflation has gone up throughout the world. IT's not only A US phenomena.

Let's chat next year and see if infalation stabilizes.

Unlike you, I'll show facts to backup my argument, rather than repeating talking points for which you zero to back them up

You just can't help yourself, can you?

And you want to have a debate, a discussion. And the first words out of your mouth are "emotional". Which makes you the professor.

Every single thing I listed needs no article to back it up.

This is called living in todays world my friend.

This is right in front of you. Trust me when I say you can't miss it if your eyes are open.

You know what makes me really smile when I read your posts??????

In my mind, I change the word Biden for Trump. And then I sit back and visualize the onslaught of hate posts that would follow from you guys.

ANd that my friend also does not need an article to back it up.

Observer,

If you want to have a rational discussion, provide facts to back it up.

You are the only one on this forum that posts with emotions rather than substance.

If you want to join in the debate, and you want to discuss point by point, please provide data to back up your assertions like the rest of the people on here are doing.

THank you

Look at the what it says on the gas pump.

Go to the store and see for yourself

Tell me what you paid for groceries last year, the ntell me what you paid last week.

Facts..................really

You remember the boy who cried wolf? Classic

So your argument that since gas prices went up, it somehow is Biden's fault?

How do you create the association that gas prices rising has something to do with Biden? You still haven't answered that

Using your logic, we can say that all pricing in the US is dependant on Biden? The price of Natural Gas? The price of Healthcare insurance? 

How do you tie the price of Gas to Biden? Which policies has he put in place that would have affected it?

Also, which policies did Biden put in place that would have raised the price of groceries? How is the rest of the world doing with inflation? 

I have news for you - Economists have largely said that the reopeining of an economy causes inflation. This is a world-wide thing; not a Biden thing. 

If you want to get any traction here, please show some proof that his policies have created gas prices to go up so much (they have been coming down). Also, that his policies somehow affected gas prices world-wide.

You are just a victim of republican talking points. It's a marketing machine that wants you to blame everything bad on Biden and everyting good on someone else. That's how they argue.

When Trump was in office, we were energy INDEPENDENT.

Do we agree on that?

Biden's first move was to reverse everything Trump did.

Do we agree on that?

This country was in the best shape it has been in for decades. The numbers and the quality of life proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I get that you hate Trump with an unhealthy passion. I didn't agree or like everything the man did either. 

He wasn't very presidential. And he wasn't an elogant speaker. But the man got things done. And he knew how to do it.

I'll tell you what scares me today. And that's Biden.

He's just like obama was, loves to redraw lines in the sand.

Trump drew a line and people knew not to cross it. Democrats criticized him for his unpredictability. that was one of his best qualities.

That's exactly what you want from a POTUS.

What happens when China invades Taiwan???

What happens when Russia invades Ukraine???

That's what scares me.

Oh yeah, have you bought a vehicle lately?????????

Another Biden failure

You voted for him budha. And you claim that you love the direction we are going in. I don't believe you

First, you need to stop making assumptions about what i "hate" etc. You don't know my mind, my heart and my soul. I have pointed out some things about him that I did like and many things about him that I did not.

Let's talk about Energy Independence - This is a great article from Forbes that answers every question you have including "Are we energy independent", how this really happened under Obama, and why Covid reversed this. 

From Forbes:

The Long March Toward Independence

But note that this was the culmination of a trend that started in 2006 when U.S. net imports topped 13 million BPD. Most of that march to energy independence happened under President Obama. All President Trump (and President Obama before him) had to do was avoid driving the bus into the ditch, and they would continue to benefit from the hydraulic fracking boom that enabled all of this.

Note near the end of the chart above that we started oscillating back and forth between a net importer and a net exporter. The Covid-19 pandemic disrupted the trend. The energy independence that we gained in 2019, was lost in the second half of 2020 as energy production plunged, but energy demand recovered. In May 2020, we had flipped back to a net oil importer, and we have oscillated since.

To be clear, I am not giving credit (or blame) here to President Obama or President Trump. Their policies weren’t responsible for the underlying plunge in our crude oil imports, which is the primary factor in our march to energy independence.

However, one thing President Obama did that helped oil production continue to expand under President Trump was in the energy bill he signed in late 2015. One stipulation in that bill allowed domestic producers to export their oil. To that point, finished products like diesel and gasoline could be exported, but not crude oil. That depressed U.S. oil prices, which benefitted refiners but not oil producers.

This comprehensive energy bill that President Obama signed helped open up new markets for domestic oil producers, who had suffered from depressed prices due to their inability to export their oil. That stipulation — which was a trade-off for getting some renewable energy provisions — helped extend the fracking boom. Prior to 2015, U.S. oil exports were insignificant. By 2019, we were exporting 3 million BPD of crude oil.

Are We Energy Independent?

The Energy Information Administration (EIA) tabulated U.S. energy consumption in 2019 and 2020, and determined that for both full years, counting all energy sources, we were energy independent. Even though U.S. energy production declined by 5% in 2020, energy consumption also declined by 3% as the pandemic impacted the economy. So, our energy independence was shrinking as the pandemic unfolded.

As I noted above, the EIA wrote:

“Annual crude oil production generally decreased between 1970 and 2008. In 2009, the trend reversed and production began to rise, and in 2019, U.S. crude oil production reached a record high of 12.25 million barrels per day. More cost-effective drilling and production technologies helped to drive the production increases, especially in Texas and North Dakota. U.S. crude oil production declined to about 11.31 million barrels per day in 2020. A large drop in U.S. petroleum demand in March and April 2020 as a result of the response to the Covid-19 pandemic led to a decrease in U.S. oil production.”

So, in 2009 we began the march to energy independence. Those wishing to credit President Trump for this need to take another look at that net imports graphic to grasp the full picture.

But we don’t actually know if, once the full year of 2021 has been accounted for, we lost our energy independence for the year. If it turns out that we did, the single largest factor in that will be that oil and natural gas production have yet to return back to pre-Covid-19 levels. But demand has recovered, and therein lies the reason.

Is The U.S. Energy Independent? (forbes.com)

Listen, it was nice of you to read my posts and then school me on........well.........everything. But I have things to do.

I'm going over to my daughters house to install some closet cabinetry that I built.

I should be back this afternoonso I'll check in with you.

I do like these posts with no name calling. They do seem more civil. But you need to work on the humble aspect a bit.

Every post you are making is about your ego.

This doesn't have to be about your ego

Present factual arguments and we can go over them point-by-point. 

Buddha,

im disappointed in your response.

SOII answered your blind Biden supporting much better than I could have done myself.

So, you attackEd the messenger, avoiding the truth of the message.

Why is that Buddha? Could it be you ard doing what you accused him of?

(letting your emotion and ego get  in the way?

you should hide your posed replies above, as they violate the stated rules of engagement.

but, in keeping with the spirit of "reasoned debate"

I won't call you a 

(------ -----)  

No Shooty, that's Obsy and you. You know full well what he's doing, but you're not calling him out on it. I understand your partisanship though.