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Msg ID: 2715693 U.S. COVID response could have avoided hundreds of thousands of deaths: re +1/-1     
Author:TheCrow
1/4/2022 5:07:06 PM

Nero fiddled while Rome burned. That's the myth.

Trump diddled while hundreds of thousands of Americans died and the economy collapsed. That's the fact.

 

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States squandered both money and lives in its response to the coronavirus pandemic, and it could have avoided nearly 400,000 deaths with a more effective health strategy and trimmed federal spending by hundreds of billions of dollars while still supporting those who needed it.

That is the conclusion of a group of research papers released at a Brookings Institution conference this week, offering an early and broad start to what will likely be an intense effort in coming years to assess the response to the worst pandemic in a century.

U.S. COVID-19 fatalities could have stayed under 300,000, versus a death toll of 540,000 and rising, if by last May the country had adopted widespread mask, social distancing, and testing protocols while awaiting a vaccine, estimated Andrew Atkeson, economics professor at University of California, Los Angeles.

He likened the state-by-state, patchwork response to a car’s cruise control. As the virus worsened people hunkered down, but when the situation improved restrictions were dropped and people were less careful, with the result that “the equilibrium level of daily deaths ... remains in a relatively narrow band” until the vaccine arrived.

Atkeson projected a final fatality level of around 670,000 as vaccines spread and the crisis subsides. The outcome, had no vaccine been developed, would have been a far-worse 1.27 million, Atkeson estimated.

The economic response, while mammoth, also could have been better tailored, argued University of California, Berkeley economics professor Christine Romer. She joins former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers and several others from the last two Democratic administrations in criticizing the spending authorized since last spring, including the Biden team’s $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan.

While she said the federal government’s more than $5 trillion in pandemic-related spending won’t likely trigger a fiscal crisis, she worries that higher-priority investments will be deferred because of allocations to initiatives like the Paycheck Protection Program.

Those forgivable small business loans were “an interesting and noble experiment,” but were also “problematic on many levels,” including an apparent cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars for each job saved, she said.

“Spending on programs such as unemployment compensation and public heath was exactly what was called for,” she wrote, but other aspects, particularly the generous one-time payments to families, were “largely ineffective and wasteful.”

 
FILE PHOTO: A critical care respiratory therapist works with a coronavirus disease (COVID-19) positive patient in the intensive care unit (ICU) at Sarasota Memorial Hospital in Sarasota, Florida, February 11, 2021. REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton/File Photo

“If something like the $1 trillion spent on stimulus payments that did little to help those most affected by the pandemic ends up precluding spending $1 trillion on infrastructure or climate change in the next few years, the United States will have made a very bad bargain indeed,” Romer wrote.

Biden administration officials, including Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, argue the full package was needed to be sure all workers and families are kept economically intact until the job market recovers.

In a separate paper, Minneapolis Federal Reserve researchers Krista Ruffini and Abigail Wozniak concluded the federal programs largely did what they intended by supporting income and spending, with the impact seen in how consumption changed in response to the approval and lapse of different government payments.

But they also found room for improvement.

Evidence of the PPP’s effectiveness in job retention, for example, was “mixed,” they found, and increases in food assistance didn’t account for things like higher grocery prices.

“Food insecurity remained elevated throughout 2020,” they noted.

The aim now, they said, should be on determining what worked in order to make the response to any similar crisis more effective.

“The 2020 social insurance system response had many successes,” they said. “Given the scope and scale of the pandemic response, it is critical we continue to evaluate these efforts to understand the full extent of their reach, which populations were helped, who was left out.”

Reporting by Howard Schneider; Editing by Dan Burns



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Msg ID: 2715740 LOL, that's one of the greatest lies I've heard in a long time. Good job +0/-1     
Author:observer II
1/5/2022 9:24:23 AM

Reply to: 2715693

I had a whole bunch of articles that would disagree with that big lie you just posted.

Thing is, they were all removed from google, twitter, and every other news source out there.

Gee, wonder why that happened????????????



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Msg ID: 2715741 And how do you know they were "Removed from google" +1/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/5/2022 9:26:15 AM

Reply to: 2715740

Things do not just get "Removed" from google. 

Do you have any proof verifiable articles were there?

The burden of proof in a conversation does not and cannot be made by saying "There were articles there, but they are not there any more". That's a white wash

Google doesn't censor based on whether somethign is True or Not - You are thinking of Facebook

People take down articles because they are proven to be false...

So, please show proof of your allegations Observer. 

"They were taken down" to me means "They were never there"



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Msg ID: 2715743 Oh, for the love of god. (NT) +0/-2     
Author:observer II
1/5/2022 9:30:00 AM

Reply to: 2715741


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Msg ID: 2715745 That's what I figured - Cannot continue the debate? +1/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/5/2022 9:34:51 AM

Reply to: 2715743

You have no response. I presented quite a few things for you and you have a sarcastic response.

Are you able to converse, point-by-point, to back up your assertions rather than offer a sarcastic response? I took the time to explain my side...you just said "There's no information there because it's been removed". That seems, on the surface, like a cop-out.

Google does not censor the way you are making them out to be. Also, there are many search engines including

Bing

Yahoo

Duck Duck Go

Google

Etc...

Are you trying to say that ALL of them are censoring the material you say once existed?

Also, if the material exists, and is simply not indexed by Google, or another search engine, the sites are still valid. I would assume some of your right-wing sites, or even you, would have the links to the data you are looking for ...

What is it Obsy? You cannot find data to backup your argument? How do you know those sites even existed before?

The simple answer is: They do not exist

 



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Msg ID: 2715747 I was reading your covid response thread. Interesting +0/-1     
Author:observer II
1/5/2022 9:48:09 AM

Reply to: 2715745

Yeah, gald you recovered from the  deadly omni.

I truly believe that you believe the vax has saved you once again.

I think we all can agree that the vax was an opinionated lie to get control and compliance.

I say that because even Fauci, the cdc and who admitted the shot did not do what they told the american people it would do.

Hence the push for the third shot. Which apparently you endorse hook, line, and sinker.

You said you believe the symptoms you had to be mild because you got the third shot.

This seems to be their claim these days. DATA SHOWS>>>>>>>>yada yada yada

This is 100% opinion as there is no way to accurate track this claim. 

You have absolutey no idea what your symptoms would have been if you hadn't got any of the shots. FACT

Everyone is different.

There is far to many articles and opinions that tell us not to get the shot. Especially if you had covid already. Which I have

In regards to the hospital claims that say they are over run with covid patients.

Fact is the majority of these patients do not go into the hospital because of covid. They go in with covid. Big difference.

As far as the over run claim goes. I kinda believe that. But what they fail to tell you the part that they fired hundreds of healthcare workers because of a mandate from the biden administration.

One of the many failures old guy pointed out to you.



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Msg ID: 2715749 I was reading your covid response thread. Interesting +1/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/5/2022 10:03:00 AM

Reply to: 2715747

Here are the facts, Obsy

I was boosted, with moderna - I had slight headache and fatigue for a day ... the next day it was more mild

My friend, who is younger, who only received two doses of Pfizer, had a sore throat, cough, and felt off for 4 days.

So, let's dig deep down into the science of the booster shot.

Perhaps, I do love science and math - I was an EMT growing up for quite a few years and studied biomedical engineering in college (for 3 years, before I switched degrees). So, i do have a fascination about being able to measure things...

They can measure the vaccine effectiveness of a vaccine by measuring the neutralizing antibodies produced once a person gets covid. In other words, they can measure how well the body responded to a viral infection, after the fact, by looking to see the defenses the body put up.

What they found is that after people got the third Moderna shot, their neutralizing antibodies, created by the body as a result of the vaccine, went up 37 fold. This also correlated to far fewer symptoms.

So, the science is there. The data is there .... 

The data also clearly shows that the death rate of non-vaccinated is 10x higher (if not more). These are facts, not fiction. 

So, hopefully that answers your question about scientific proof that vaccines do work to prevent severe illness and death.

Here is yet another graph that shows how effective vaccines are in preventing infection




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Msg ID: 2715753 I have no doubt you can find a million sites claiming the same +0/-1     
Author:observer II
1/5/2022 10:15:30 AM

Reply to: 2715749

The very minute they attached money to covid, it was over. Greed will win everytime.

Money for covid positives

Money for putting people on ventilators

Money for giving shots

Money for testing

There are far too many instances where the reporting was double counted, recounted, and false positives to provide any accurate data.

When a gunshot wound to the head enters the hospital and the first thing they do is test for covid, something is seriously wrong.

There is a very different definition of dying from covid, as opposed to dying with covid.

And how many flu deaths did we have last year. 

How about kidney failure, heart attacks, liver failure, old age??? I think you would be surprised to ee that data.

But I did hear the flu is coming back this year, lol. It was on vacation, lol



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Msg ID: 2715756 I have no doubt you can find a million sites claiming the same +1/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/5/2022 10:19:44 AM

Reply to: 2715753

As usual, you just white-wash

The data is out there. It proves something that is inconvenient for you.

If you have a scientific study that proves your argument, please present it here. Otherwise, your opinion holds little to no value in a debate. 



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Msg ID: 2715792 HAHAHAHA, yeah, data from liberal websites. Very accurate, not!! +0/-1     
Author:observer II
1/5/2022 5:07:38 PM

Reply to: 2715756

This is why no one will ever dabate anything with you.

There's really nothing to debate when you are debating with someone that simply knows everything.

BTW, I thought you were not participating here anymore. That lasted long.

 



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Msg ID: 2715795 So +1/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/5/2022 5:13:48 PM

Reply to: 2715792

You are not able to come up with any data to back up your argument. It's what I expected from you.

When you have a point you actually want to discuss, feel free to post it on here. People can only take so much of your white-washing and overgenerilzation. If you want to atack a source, post your own source or at least point out something in the article / source that you dispute rather than your attempt at labeling.

At least I make an effort to source things and backup my assertions. I don't try to ridicule you and pull the wool over your eyes. Hope your visit with your daughter went well though and that everybody is fine.

ttyl Obsy

 



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Msg ID: 2715800 Oh, I see how your new rules work now +0/-1     
Author:observer II
1/5/2022 5:24:01 PM

Reply to: 2715795

You said you make an effort. My bad

 

 



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Msg ID: 2715812 Oh, I see how your new rules work now +1/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/5/2022 6:24:17 PM

Reply to: 2715800

Yes, is that too much to ask? I make an effort to research your assertions. If you are correct, I'll agree with you and support what you are saying - I just did that for Shooty when he posted about Ivermectin. I researched it and he is, from what I can tell, correct, about episodic use of it. 

I'm willing to listen to you, but overgeneralizing and labeling aren't not condusive to us debating a topic.



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Msg ID: 2715876 Well, then you better reread your postings (NT) +0/-1     
Author:observer II
1/6/2022 10:11:26 AM

Reply to: 2715812


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