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Msg ID: 2715779 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:Old Guy
1/5/2022 2:06:48 PM

Your timeline must have been produced by the Jan 6 committee.  Ask yourself, How much time went from the speech to when Trump asked people support the police, be peaceful and go home.  This timeline does not give any clear information to support your accusation.

It say Trump speech was to start at 12:00, does not indicate when it really started, was he 10 minutes or 30 minutes late.

It says his speech lasted over one hour.  Was it one hour and 10 minutes or one hour and 59 minutes.  Not identifying the time the speech was really over, tells use the purpose of the timeline is to mislead people.

It does not point out the time after the speech that Trump spent shakeing hands, traveling, haveing lunch, or any other activities that used up his time.

So we really have NO idea from this timeline how much time went by from the end of his speech when he said "go peacefully" to went he requested people to go home.

It does claim that Trump reached out at 2:38 for protesters to support the police and stay peaceful.  That is in your timeline.  So Trump did make attempts to ease the protest, by your timeline!  And it could have been within the first hour of coming back from the speech, by your timeline.

By the Jan 6 committee timeline, you have not proven anything to justify any outrage about Trumps action.  Did he support the protesters, "yes", did he support going into the Capital building "no".  And your timeline proves that!

Next you posted a elaborate post about medical cost, but failed to recognize a few things the main thing you failed to recognize is that these high cost are driven by the very government you want to take it over.

our medical system has been over regulated for many years, most all of the higher costs are due to the compliance to goverment regulations.  This is also true for heathcare insurance, cost have been driven up because of excessive regulations.  It has not been a free market place for years and years.  And as time goes on more regulations and control have been placed upon the heathcare providers the cost will never go down.  Have you ever paid cash for a operation, if you can it is much cheaper.

Maybe people in your area get heathcare from Medicare, but I doubt it.  Most Doctors will not take Medicare  patients, they are forced to go to emergency rooms.  How can that be better?

 

 

 



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Msg ID: 2715780 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/5/2022 2:37:18 PM

Reply to: 2715779

The timeline is crystal clear Old guy - It's from Wikipedia

Timeline of the 2021 United States Capitol attack - Wikipedia

Every single time has a citation so you can see where it was derived from

At 4:17 PM, he uploads a video to twitter - If you want to dispute that time, please do so

As far as medical stuff goes, again, the costs are high because we do not have a single payer system and the insurance companies pay, often multiple of times higher, for prescription and med device costs. This is not an opinion. This is what drives the price our system so high.

  • Americans pay almost four times as much for pharmaceutical drugs as citizens of other developed countries.
  • In other countries, prices for drugs and healthcare are at least partially controlled by the government. In the U.S. prices depend on market forces.
    • On average, Americans shell out almost four times as much for pharmaceutical drugs as citizens of other industrialized countries pay. High drug prices are the single biggest area of overspending in the U.S. compared to Europe, where drug prices are government regulated, often based on the clinical benefit of the medication.

       With little regulation of drug prices, the U.S. spends an average of $1,443 per person, compared to $749, on average, spent by the other prosperous countries studied. In the U.S. private insurers can negotiate drug prices with manufacturers, often through the services of pharmacy benefit managers. However, Medicare, which pays for a hefty percentage of the national drug costs, is not permitted to negotiate prices with manufacturers 
  • “Administrative” costs are frequently cited as a cause for excess medical spending. The U.S. spends about 8% of its healthcare dollar on administrative costs, compared to 1% to 3% in the 10 other countries the JAMA study looked at.

Yes, defensive medicine is a part of why our costs are high, but the majority is medical device and medication costs. That's not even a hypothesis, it's a fact. We pay 4-5x more for the same medicine as other countries. 



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Msg ID: 2715785 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:Old Guy
1/5/2022 3:20:48 PM

Reply to: 2715780

Bladeslap I do not understand you.  What are you even trying to say, the time line is clear Trump did go out of his way and tried to stop the violence.  What is the big deal?

you are wrong about what drives prices high.  We all know for fact that competition between goods and services is what keeps prices competitive.  There is NO competition in single payer systems, the only way to keep costs down is; 1, control prices by law, with the results that some services will not be available.  2.  Regulate who gets the service, this is normally done by limiting the available of services.  Why do you think our hospitals are full of people from Canada getting heart surgery.  3, Ration the services to those you think are more needy, already happening in NY over Covid treatment.

Free marketplace heathcare has not been in place for many years.  The goverment controls everything in our heathcare programs, from the number of hospital beds to were insurance can be sold and prescription control, regulations drive most of the costs.

 

 



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Msg ID: 2715790 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/5/2022 4:59:03 PM

Reply to: 2715785

The big deal is he waited more than 2 hours to make any attempt to stop the violence. That is a HUGE problem. He had many many people asking him to make a statement and he refused...until over 2 hours into the violence. You think that's reasonable? Most people you ask would likely say no. His Son, His Daughter, his chief of staff, people from Fox News...Everybody reaching out to him to "Please make a statement to stop this...I am at a loss for words how you have no problem with him waiting 2 hours after the violence started, while he was watching it in the oval office, to finally ask them to go home. 

2+ hours later is useless...the damage was done

So, on to healthcare

You are missing the boat on single-payer healthcare system ... In a big way

If you look at what single-payer healthcare systems pay for prescription drugs and medical devices, they have huge negotiating power because of the volume. It's already been proven that the drug and device costs of single-payer systems are sometimes 4 to 5 times less than the splintered US System.

I don't want to repeat that again, but that completely contradicts your notion about it actually being more. There's nothing further from the truth than what you said

Single-Payer Systems Likely to Save Money in US, Analysis Finds | UC San Francisco (ucsf.edu)


 

Projected costs of single-payer healthcare financing in the United States: A systematic review of economic analyses (nih.gov) - This assessed multiple studies performed of how a single-payer system would affect costs... but, more than that, the proof is in the pudding. Every single country that is a single-payer system has dramatically lower drug costs and overall healthcare costs than the US. Please point to any single payer system where they pay more for drugs... You won';t find it

Study after study after study confirms that a single-payer system will save dramatically in drug costs (and other costs such as administration)

 



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Msg ID: 2715834 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:Old Guy
1/5/2022 8:10:35 PM

Reply to: 2715790

I agree by your posted time line Trump could have responded any time between 60 minutes to what has been officially posted 86 minutes.  No to bad, if you want to think that is horrible, go ahead.  Most of us don't!

Let me ask you about drug prices.

Trump signed a executive order that required Medicare Part B to pay no more than the lowest price that drug manufacturers received in other countries.  This would be mandatory and set to begin Jan1 2021.

 My question to you,

WHY DID BIDEN CANCEL THAT?

Is cheaper drug prices just a talking point, never to take real action?



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Msg ID: 2715855 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/6/2022 6:53:36 AM

Reply to: 2715834

Can you point me to an article where this happened? 

It seems he's doing just the opposite by trying to encourage legislation that will allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices. Something both Obama and Trump were unable to get passed

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2021/bidens-executive-order-promotes-competition-lower-drug-costs



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Msg ID: 2715861 Bladeslap read the timeline +1/-0     
Author:Old Guy
1/6/2022 9:00:25 AM

Reply to: 2715855

Feb. 1 Biden put a freeze on Trumps drug price rules. Found with a easy internet search and then Biden has started his own program.  

Lets see, Biden wants part B to negotiate the prices, so they get a better deal.

but,

Trumps deal did the negotiating for them, it had to get them as cheap as any other country.

in otherwise Trumps in plan it could not get any better.

This is a wonderful example of how if something had Trumps name on it, had to go, even if they could not replace it with something better.

 

 



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Msg ID: 2715870 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/6/2022 9:54:34 AM

Reply to: 2715861

If what you're saying is true, that could be a valid point.

On the other hand, passing a law, a comprehensive law carries a lot more weight than an executive order, wouldn't you agree?

Do you believe he's doing this to overhaul the entire system a lot more?



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Msg ID: 2715881 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:Old Guy
1/6/2022 10:37:40 AM

Reply to: 2715870

With as divided everything is to day, getting an executive order is about the only way to do things.

Yes passing a law with reasonable debate, and bipartisan support is without a doubt the best, laws cannot be undone with a one more executive order.

Both sides have pushed the executive order way beyound it's purpose.  It is not to make new laws but to clarify what is already passed into law.

Do I believe Biden is doing this to overhaul the intire system?

NO, I believe Biden is mentally a basket case.  I believe others are really running this country, he is told what to say and what questions to answer and how!  And yes I believe they are basically Marxist.  If you read deeply into any of the bills you find the start of goverment having control of the marketplace.  Heathcare is a obvious example, but how about one that looks like it could just slip by.  For example in "Make American Better" the goverment will build auto charging stations all over the country to of charge up you electic car they will require you to buy.  But wait, does this mean the federal goverment will own car charging stations, yes it does!  How Marxist can they get!  You will not like your goverment much when they control when you can charge and how much your can drive.



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Msg ID: 2715890 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/6/2022 11:27:15 AM

Reply to: 2715881

I don't agree with you that Biden is a "basket case"; his performance in the debates proved he is able to think on his own, hold his own, and convey lucid arguments. 

That said, I don't think anyone was ever crazy about him coming into office, but the people who voted for him were mostly trying to remove someone from office whom many strongly felt was incapable of holding office (including many people in his own cabinet, his niece, etc).

A true leader works be bringing people together, not by dividing and appealing to people's fears. I get how he operates. You don't have to agree with me, but it's the way I see it.



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Msg ID: 2715894 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:Old Guy
1/6/2022 11:48:25 AM

Reply to: 2715890

I think that was funny, Biden has divided the country even more!  He is far from the stable person you think he is.  They control him, why do questions to him require approval before asked?  Why did they build a fake oval office with video screens around so when he is interviewed he can reply what is on those screens?  Why has he even said "they don't want me to talk about that"?  Why will they not test his mental state, or if they have, released the information?  I could go on and on, but if you have experienced anyone with demetia you would recognize the physical and mental conditions.



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Msg ID: 2715920 Bladeslap read the timeline +0/-0     
Author:bladeslap
1/6/2022 1:36:13 PM

Reply to: 2715894

Couldn't disagree more - 

You feel Biden is dividing the country because he's not Trump. Plain and simple. 

Trump would rather destroy democracy to stay in power. I truly wish you looked closely at his Behavior, at what his closest advisors have both privately and publicly said about him.

I don't hear any close advisors or Biden talking about him the way Trump's spoke about him. I don't see multiple people indicted in teh Biden Circle. 

The trump circle had so many indictments, among others...It shows you the character of the leader, the type of people he surrounds himself with.

Are you okay with all that Old Guy?



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