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Msg ID: 2737799 Extreme Right Idiot Finally Comes Clean... +4/-0     
Author:Jett
8/3/2022 6:54:21 PM

He operates on the same level as Obsy and Greene...

 

 

He squirmed, he sweated and then finally folded: After 10 years of causing 'utter misery' to bereft Sandy Hook parents Alex Jones finally admitted massacre of 20 children was no hoax

  •  A 12-person jury will now decide how much he owes the devastated victims' parents for damage and harm his lies have caused them over the span of a decade
  • In the aftermath of gunman Adam Lanza's deadly school shooting, Alex Jones started telling people through his radio show and website that the murders never happened - and in some cases, that the children being mourned didn't exist 
  • He claimed that the deadly shooting was 'staged' and 'completely fake', carried out by 'actors' as a 'giant hoax' 
  • Jones claimed that Sandy Hooks was an 'operation' engineered by the government to take away Second Amendment rights and promote stricter gun control laws 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11078391/After-10-years-causing-utter-misery-Sandy-Hook-parents-Alex-Jones-admits-massacre-happened.htmlp>

 

 

 



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Msg ID: 2737832 And I have a prediciton +3/-0     
Author:bladeslap
8/4/2022 7:30:34 AM

Reply to: 2737799

Notice how all the texts messages are missing from the secret service and pentagon regarding the Jan 6th? They even knew they were illegally deleted, yet they still didnt notify the proper people. Imagine why the text messages would disappear? Perhaps because they told a story the Trump adminstration did not went to ever see the light of day.

If Trump is indicted and convited and / or they find even more damning evidence, Obsy Old guy and Flipper will drift out into the sunset never to be heard from again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. There will be  a day of reckoning where the proof becomes so incredibily obvious and indisputable. Watch

 



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Msg ID: 2738201 "And I have a prediciton... find even more damning evidence, Obsy Old guy a +3/-0     
Author:TheCrow
8/7/2022 2:02:33 PM

Reply to: 2737832

"And I have a prediciton... find even more damning evidence, Obsy Old guy and Flipper will drift out into the sunset never to be heard from again"

I disagree- dedicated Trumpists don't really care how Trump violated the law or common morality. Trump represents their anti-social, libertarian juvenile rebellion inclinations. They want legal restrictions on everything they object to and complete liberty to do as they please.

Trump's 'stolen election' claim is a brilliant illustration of this- he never carried a majority in any electorate he couldn't bully and bluff into supporting him. The Republican Party, for instance, is popularly believed to be a party of the wealthy and powerful- who earned and deserve that power, the Trumpist will tell you. The fact that that is a tiny proportion of Americans is justified because...?????

The Democrats are portrayed as anarchic and that is somewhat justified as they have less fascist aspects than the Republicans. But herding cats is always a problem unless you scare them all in one direction. Trump may well have done exactly that. Imagine the challenge of getting a perpetual also ran- Joe Biden elected president. Or exposing America, with one of the highest healthcare capabilities in the world to a pandemic of epidemic proportions. Or portraying NATO as an ineffective, ineffient obligation- Until Russia invades Ukraine.

The fact that we have no boots on the ground in Eastern Europe is very, very important.

 

 
 
“I hope everyone is able to remember that it was me, as President of the United States, that got delinquent NATO members to start paying their dues, which amounted to hundreds of billions of dollars. There would be no NATO if I didn’t act strongly and swiftly. Also, it was me that got Ukraine the very effective antitank busters (Javelins) when the previous Administration was sending blankets. Let History so note!”
 
 

— Former president Donald Trump, in a statement, Feb. 28

Only days ago, Trump lauded Russian President Vladimir Putin as “very savvy” for making a “genius” move by declaring two regions of eastern Ukraine as independent states and dispatching Russian armed forces to seize them. “Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful,” Trump said Feb. 22 on the “Clay Travis and Buck Sexton” show, referring to the troops as “the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen.”

 

Of course, it turns out that Putin launched an invasion of all of Ukraine. With Ukraine putting up a gallant fight and the United States and its allies imposing harsh sanctions on Russia, Trump on Monday issued a defensive statement repeating falsehoods he regularly made during his presidency.

With Trump, it’s hard to know if he’s willfully ignorant or if he has simply swallowed his own spin. Far from being a savior of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, he frequently sought to undermine it. Here’s a quick guide to what’s wrong or misleading in his statement.

“It was me, as President of the United States, that got delinquent NATO members to start paying their dues, which amounted to hundreds of billions of dollars.”

 

During the 2016 presidential election, Trump consistently inflated the U.S. contribution to NATO. Once he became president, his inaccuracy persisted, but with a twist. Nearly 150 times during his presidency, he claimed that “hundreds of billions” of dollars had come into NATO because of his complaints. Sometimes, as president, he even suggested this money might be coming directly to the United States.

 

This is all poppycock.

There are two types of funding for NATO: direct funding and indirect funding. The amount of direct funding provided by each NATO member, for military-related operations, maintenance and headquarters activity, generally is based on gross national income — the total domestic and foreign output claimed by residents of a country — and adjusted regularly. The United States and Germany each underwrite 16.34 percent of direct spending; the U.S. share had previously been slightly higher, as it had the biggest economy, but its share was reduced under Trump, at his insistence.

 

A significant portion of the U.S. share goes to operating the Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) fleet operations, according to the Congressional Research Service. The United States contributed about $406 million in Trump’s last year in office, though President Biden sought to boost that to $482 million in fiscal year 2022.

Those numbers are a rounding error in the Pentagon’s $700 billion budget. What Trump is really referring to is indirect spending — what NATO members spend on their own defense.

Trump claimed NATO members were “delinquent,” but that was not the case. NATO members are supposed to meet a guideline of spending at least 2 percent of their gross domestic product on defense by 2024 — a process that had started before Trump became president.

 

He also often asserted NATO spending was at a low point when he came into office, but that’s also not true. It had fallen after the end of the Cold War but had started rising sharply after 2014, after Russia seized Crimea from Ukraine. NATO estimates that European NATO members and Canada added $130 billion in cumulative defense spending through 2020, in 2015 dollars, as an increase over 2016 spending. NATO also estimates that the cumulative figure will rise to $400 billion through 2024.

 

“There would be no NATO if I didn’t act strongly and swiftly.”

In reality, Trump repeatedly told aides he wanted to leave NATO.

“Trump told his top national security officials that he did not see the point of the military alliance, which he presented as a drain on the United States,” the New York Times reported in 2019. That reporting was confirmed when Trump’s former national security adviser John R. Bolton published a memoir in 2020 that described Trump as repeatedly saying he wanted to quit the alliance, saying at one point, “I don’t give a s--- about NATO.” Bolton said he had to convince Trump not to quit NATO in the middle of a 2018 summit.

 

Trump’s former chief of staff John F. Kelly, a retired four-star Marine general, was also described as saying that “one of the most difficult tasks he faced with Trump was trying to stop him from pulling out of NATO.”

When Trump ran for reelection, it was generally feared he would pull out of the alliance if he was reelected. In a fit of pique at Germany, Trump in 2020 ordered the withdrawal of 12,000 U.S. troops, about one-third of the force based there. When Biden became president, he quickly reversed the plan and kept the troops there.

 

“Also, it was me that got Ukraine the very effective antitank busters (Javelins) when the previous Administration was sending blankets.”

 

Trump yet again minimizes the materiel provided to Ukraine by Barack Obama’s administration. While the Obama administration did not send lethal aid, it in 2015 provided Ukraine more than $120 million in security assistance and had pledged an additional $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, armored Humvee vehicles, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices and medical supplies, according to the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

Many of these same items were provided by the Trump administration but in March 2018; the White House also approved the sale of Javelin missiles, a shoulder-fired precision missile system designed to destroy tanks, other armored vehicles and helicopters. One issue the Obama administration faced is that some U.S. officials were concerned the Ukrainian military did not have the capability to handle weapons such as Javelin antitank missiles, but it achieved that capability by the time Trump became president.

Ironically, Foreign Policy magazine reported, Trump initially did not want to provide Javelins to Ukraine, but eventually aides convinced him that it could be good for U.S. business. Nevertheless, the sale was mostly symbolic. At the time, the Trump administration insisted that Javelins could not be deployed in a conflict zone, so they were stored in western Ukraine, far from the front lines of the ongoing conflict against pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine.

 

In a call on July 25, 2019, Trump asked for “a favor” after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Ukraine was ready to buy more Javelins. That favor involved launching an investigation of Joe Biden — which led to Trump’s first impeachment. As part of his effort to pressure Zelensky, Trump placed a hold on aid to Ukraine — $250 million in aid through the Defense Department and $141 million in aid through the State Department — that had already been appropriated.

U.S. officials became increasingly frantic about the Ukraine aid freeze because the 2019 fiscal year ended Sept. 30, after which the appropriation would expire. The hold was finally lifted in mid-September, only after intense pressure from members of Congress on both sides of the aisle, but it takes time for the U.S. government to transfer such funds. It turned out that about $35 million of the aid could not be disbursed by the Sept. 30 deadline. For the money to go through, Congress had to pass a law extending the deadline to the fiscal 2020 year.

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Msg ID: 2738205 And any time Alex Jones is having a bad day, it’s good for civilization. +2/-1     
Author:TheCrow
8/7/2022 2:14:16 PM

Reply to: 2737799

There was a time when I listened to Alex Jones. Then the Trump Era in 'conservatism' became a 'thing' and violated every precept or real conservatism.

Alex Jones is a rabble rousing populist who will do anything to solidify his followers. The more outrageous the better as Trumpism is not based on logic but irrational objectio.

Deplorables Are Real

The problem isn't the demagogues, it’s their audiences.

Aug 6
Alex Jones, in happier times. (Photo by Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu Agency via Getty Images)

1. Tower of Babel

 

I was unaware that Ken White (aka Popehat) does a Substack. It is magnificent. Here he is on the Alex Jones case:

When Jesus appeared before Pilate, they spoke different languages. I don’t mean that literally — although maybe they did speak different languages and used a translator, or maybe spoke Aramaic, or Latin. I mean that they used language in completely different ways. Jesus was preaching. Pilate was judging. Jesus was talking about truth with a capital T. Pilate was trying to focus Jesus on the practicalities of the case, and perhaps making a mordant quip about the futility of the process when he said “what is truth.” There was no meeting of the minds.

When modern American political culture winds up in court, the effects are similar. The participants are speaking different languages, and using language in different ways. Courts are focused on a taxonomy of words. Are they factual? Are they opinion? Are they literal or figurative? Courts also care about the literal truth of words. That’s central to defamation law — it’s not defamatory unless it was false. Courts are about analysis, and the entire project of the law is about words meaning specific things.

But modern American political culture is emotive and even artistic. It uses language like a musician uses notes or an impressionist uses brush strokes. Whether it’s Marjorie Taylor Greene talking about Bill Gates' efforts to colonize our bowels through "peach tree dishes" or Alex Jones ranting about gay frogs, modern politicians and pundits use language to convey feelings and attitudes and values, not specific meanings. If you demand Alex Jones defend the specific meaning of his words, it’s like demanding your eight-year-old defend his statement that his birthday party was the best day ever when previously that’s what he said about Disneyland.

Which brings us to the mismatch problem with having Alex Jones in a court of law:

The point is that courts are ill-equipped to deal with people like Alex Jones, and people like Alex Jones are ill-equipped to deal with courts. Jones’ catastrophic testimony in his own defense illustrates this. Jones struggled to fit his bombast within the framework of the law, within the distinction between fact and opinion. It’s a bad fit because that’s not how he uses words. If Jones had been honest — an utterly foreign concept to him — he might have said “I just go out there and say what I feel.” The notion that Sandy Hook was a hoax is a word-painting, a way of conveying Jones’ bottomless rage at politics and media and modernity, and he can no more defend it factually than Magritte could defend the logical necessity of a particular brushstroke.

But that’s only a warmup for White going full-darkness:

I suspect that a vast judgment against Jones won’t have much value as a deterrent or proclamation of truth. Jones is loathsomely rich because people want to consume his art. His landscapes of hate and fear and mistrust resonate with a frightening number of Americans. The people who enjoyed his Sandy Hook trutherism didn’t enjoy it because it was factually convincing or coherent; they enjoyed the emotional state it conveyed because it matched theirs. The plodding technicalities of law are probably inadequate to change their minds.

Defamation cases like this one — or Dominion’s case against Sidney Powell, or the parade of defamation claims against Trump — are just, and it’s just that the victims receive compensation. But they don’t solve the problem. America can survive the demagogues themselves, it’s their audience that will kill us.

This. Stare into the abyss and read the whole thing. (And subscribe.)


What White is talking about is of a piece with a conversation I had with my colleague Will Saletan on Friday.

Will asked me what I thought motivated the segment of Republican voters who are openly illiberal. Here’s my response:

I think they are voting on hating other Americans. . . . They have an eschatological view of the country. They know exactly who they hate. And who they hate are not the North Koreans, not the Chinese. It’s not the Russians. Those are the far out-groups. What they hate are the near out-groups. They don’t disagree with them. They hate them. And that’s what they’re voting on.

I’m not describing every Republican. Maybe not even a majority of them. But it’s clearly a share that’s bigger than 2 percent. It’s a share that’s big enough that it has nominated gubernatorial candidates in Arizona and Pennsylvania and a Senate candidate in Georgia. It’s a share big enough to have made Alex Jones and Sidney Powell rich and made Donald Trump president of these United States.

Take Ken White’s admonition and put it on a pillow: “America can survive the demagogues themselves, it’s their audience that will kill us.”

That’s because democracy has no solution for how to fix itself when a large enough share of the populace goes sour.


But let me cheer you up: Jones was ordered to pay $50 million in damages yesterday to the Sandy Hook parents. It’s not enough. The floor should have been 10x that number. But whatever. It’s a start.

And any time Alex Jones is having a bad day, it’s good for civilization.

 



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