Do vaccines dramatically lower the rate of severe covid-19 and hospitalization? If you don't believe that, why?

I believe when the covid shot was developed, they truly thought it would eliminate the chance of catching the virus and/or the spreading of the virus.

Not sure why they ever thought that because it is a  virus. A cold is a virus, the flu is a virus. And we've had these for centuries. There is no cure for it.

That being said, we've always been told and believed that the flu shot would prevent or lessen the effects of the flu. I myself also believed that and had no reason to think otherwise.

But I also know many people that will no longer get the flu shot because they get far sicker from the shot then they ever did from the actual flu.

I have gotten the flu shot in the past but no longer get it. Maybe I've been lucky, idk.

But this covid shot has caused far too much comtroversy. There is far too much data out there that has shown us it's effectiveness. And this has changed far too many times for anything to be believable now.

Also, the fact that they were trying to force this on every American is alarming in itself. My body, my choice, right? And then to literally terminate employment because of non-compliance is nothing short of a violation of the constitution rights of every American.

Sorry, I got a little sidetracked. To your question as to whether the shot lowers the rate of the covid & hospitalization.

My take on this is there is no way to predict this. I had the covid and didn't even know it. Now, there is no way for me to know if the covid would have  been worse if I had goten the shot.

This is an educated guess in my opinion. And the reason I think that way is because the expectations of this shot has changed a dozen times .

Won't catch the virus, will lessen the symptoms, won't be hospitalized, won't die, etc... Well, we've seen that none of those expectations were accurate.

I guess I just don't understand why they don't come out and simply say, "we were wrong".

Now, are you protected after getting the shot. Maybe for a few months from what I've read. But there is a lot of data out there now telling us that natural immunity is better.

And another question would be, why did they ignore natural immunity for years? It was never discussed in a serious manner.

This post is too long, my bad. But ask yourself this. When the covid first emerged, onlu people 55 and older were at risk. Children weren't even mentioned. They started contracting the virus after they starting pushing that kids get the shot.

My -.02

I will agree with you that given the Omicron variant, the vaccine does not prevent everyone from getting it.

That said, do we agree that all studies thus far show that being vaccinated, and especially boosted, significantly reduces the threat of serious disease and death?

No one, not even the CDC, ever made the claim it would completely prevent you from getting the virus. It has been acknolwedged, especially given the multitude of strains, that the vaccine's main purpose is to prevent severe disease and death. Can we agree on that point at least?

I think that we are now at that point. But it certainly didn't start out that way.

Biden said the vaccine will prevent people from getting it. And when the data showed quite the opposite. Then the narrative changed to getting the shot prevents spreading it.

And when that wasn't true, it went to you won't be hospitalized.

And when that wasn't true, it went to you won't die.

Yet people were still dying. Then came long covid. At some point there won't be any where to go.

This is what I was talking about when I said no one trusts the CDC or any of the liberal media outlets because this entire covid pandemic has been one big pile of misinformation.

What is really devastating here is the millions of people that lost their jobs over the mandate. You had hundreds of thousands of healthcare workers that helped these people throughout the pandemic and still lost their jobs. Do you agree with that?

All that being said, I do not agree that the shot prevents anything. Long covid is the narrative now so they are now claiming the shot is to prevent organ damage and death. Keep in mind that long covid came out only months after the vaccinations started. So what exactly is the definition of long??

Also,I don't think the variants have anything to do with it IMO.

And I also think our president is despicable for calling unvaccinated Americans that they are the problem. That they are the reason we are still fighting this.

I truly believe we would not be so divided today if they simply would have left Americans to make their own educated decision whether or not to get it.

And acknowledge the fact that it was Trump that fast tracked the production of the shot. Unfortuneatly it just didn't do what they hoped it would do.

I think we could clarify the word "prevents you from getting it"

Do you use that word as "100% prevents you from getting it" or "lowers your chances of getting it"?

Well, I don't tthink that anything 100%

I guess my point was that biden originally told everyone that by getting the shot, it would prevent you from contracting the virus.

But that theory was dispelled pretty quick, then the purpose of the shot changed several times after that.

And at one point, he blamed the unvaccinated for the spread. which was complete misinformation and very poor politics.

I believe there is a very small percentage of people out there that haven't gotten it. Many, like myself didn't even know they had it.

There were remedies out there that worked and were ignored. There were medical workers that were told they would be fired if they administered drugs that were not approved by.............who knows who.

My sister died because of the hospitals covid cocktail. A drug known for causing blood clots. Remdezavere

So I feel in many cases, the death rate was increased due to ignorance and politics

My opinion

Yes, it does "Prevent" you from getting the virus and "prevents" you from hospitalization, but no one, and I mean NO ONE ever said anyting 100% prevents it ... It "mitigates" 

obsy, let's take the armor off here and be honest with one another. 

You are treating this as a Binary ... As a black & white. It either works or it doesn't. 

So, because Biden slipped up and made it sound like they are 100% effective, you are clamoring around that and making that your stump speech?

The data has been out for several years now. It's very very clear that no vaccine is 100% effective. You and I both know that. 

You also know that the vaccine prevents most infections and prevents nearly all severe illness and hospitalazations. So, why do you keep mincing words and not acknowledge that the vaccine has helped billions of people on this earth so far, many of whom would have died or had severe illness?

Your case is a good one that you go it and your immune system and defense systems were adequate enough to fight the virus (assuming you do not have any long-covid symptoms). 

That said, almost 30% of people who get covid have long covid symptoms that don't go away. People who are vaccinated statistically have a much lower chance of 

1. Long Covid

2. Being infected to start out with

3. Severe Illness / hospitalization

4. Death

So, foget the fact that Biden DID say you wont get covid if you have the vaccine...that was a mis-statement. People do do that from time to time. The CDC, Government, Fauci have stated time and time again, as well as every single piece of literature, that it mitigates your risk.

I think you and I can both agree that the vaccines DO mitigate the risk, and whether you agree with me or not, the adverse reactions to it appear far less than that benefits of getting it and mitigating covid risks.

Well, I just don't think you understand that there is no possible way to detemine the severity of symptoms, with, or without the shot.

Long covid was just the next step in justifying the shot. For starters, it is not a vaccination, and never was a vaccination. Thye even changed the definition of vaccination to accommodate their new stance.

Doesn't the back pedaling alarm you? Biden did say it would pervent getting the virus. A mistake, it is now, but he never apologized for it. Tell me how you would feel if Trump made that same mistake? Be honest

As far as long covid goes, I know many people that now have issues because they got the shot. Why isn't that ever mentioned. And why is it never mentioned the multitudes of people that died from getting the shot. And there are plenty.

I'm telling you budha, once they put a dollar amount on this thing, the data was doomed. There are far too many accounts of false positives, and double death counts to believe any of the numbers they came up with. This virus wasn't nearly what they said it was.

Do you agree with their stance in regards to firing millions of people for non-compliance?

Let's take each issue one by one

Well, I just don't think you understand that there is no possible way to detemine the severity of symptoms, with, or without the shot.

Yes there actually is - Hospitalization and ICU are directly related to the severity of symptoms; When someone is hospitalized, they know whether they got the vaccine or not. Also, at least in our state, they have surveys that are done for everybody who has gotten the vaccine. They track who has gotten sick etc. There are also studies in which they track people who have been and have not been vaccinated and track over time the severity of the illness. So to your point, YES, it's highly trackable. There is MORE than definitive proof that being vaccinated prevents 90% + of severe illness / hospitalizaiton.

COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths by Vaccination Status (wa.gov)

And here is Covid Case rates - How much the vaccination helps:

Clear that being unvaccinated, over 65 as an example, you are over 200% more likley to get covid

For hospitalizations, in the 12-34 age group, you are 410% more likely to require hospitalization

Covid Death Rates: in 65+, you are 310% more likely to die of covid if you are unvaccinated (Just for those who got 2 shots)

Keep in mind, this is conservative data because it doesnt deal with those who got the booster...Just the primary 2 shots

Long covid was just the next step in justifying the shot. For starters, it is not a vaccination, and never was a vaccination. Thye even changed the definition of vaccination to accommodate their new stance.

You are reading too much conspiracy stuff - Please let's get away from teh Alex Jones stuff. Yes, it's a vaccine. It trains the body to fight the virus. And yes, 30% of people who have had covid hve "long covid" _ symptoms that have not resolved. 

Covid-19 vaccination cuts the risk of Long Covid in Half

COVID-19 vaccination halves the risk of Long COVID | Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance

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Doesn't the back pedaling alarm you? Biden did say it would pervent getting the virus. A mistake, it is now, but he never apologized for it. Tell me how you would feel if Trump made that same mistake? Be honest

You are doing yourself a disservice. You are missing the entire forest from the trees

1. The vaccine reduces your risk of getting sick, of getting severely ill, and dying. It also reduces your change of long covid. You're trying to make an issue out of a mix-up of words by Biden? Is that all you've got? The fact that he used the wrong word in a speech? You're hyperfocussing rather than looking at WHAT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE VACCINE IS

As far as long covid goes, I know many people that now have issues because they got the shot. Why isn't that ever mentioned. And why is it never mentioned the multitudes of people that died from getting the shot. And there are plenty.

And i know many many people who have Long Covid ... Breathing issues ... Cognitive ... 

I'm telling you budha, once they put a dollar amount on this thing, the data was doomed. There are far too many accounts of false positives, and double death counts to believe any of the numbers they came up with. This virus wasn't nearly what they said it was.

You are reverberating conspiracy theories. The data completely disagrees with you. Why is it that when REAL data, in peer reviewed studies is presented to you, you ignore it and quote the sources that agree with your world view? Have you ever done a google search on "Covid Vaccine Effectiveness" 


COVID-19 vaccine waning and effectiveness and side-effects of boosters: a prospective community study from the ZOE COVID Study - The Lancet Infectious Diseases

That is from the most authoritative publication - "The Lancet Infections Disease" journal. They rigorously scrutinize research articles to ensure they meet the standards to be published. Not only in the U.S., but the world uses this as the basis and foundation for infectious diseases.

Please quote for me the sources you are using to get your information

Do you agree with their stance in regards to firing millions of people for non-compliance?

I don't have an opinion of that either way - 

I appreciate discussing this topic with you even though we are at opposite ends of the topic.

Did you know Fauci is resigning in december?

Pretty convenient, don't you think?

Just in time when the republicans come into power. He'll have no protection and he knows he can't survive without liberals protecting him in congress.

That man needs to be held responsible for the things he put this country through. The lies he told that has caused much of what we are experiencing today. And his role in the Woohan lab funding 

But I'll wait for that axe to fall. He's got a little time to get his story together.

Fauci is in his 80s - He probably wants to enjoy his life as opposed to being attacked by lunatics and threatening him at 81 years old. Wouldn't you think?

I think he's tired of the likes of Ron Paul spewing falsehoods that are not backed up by science and getting death threats from lunatic right wing supporters ... 

You think at 81 years of age, he would want to call it quits?

I responded  to you - Please read the article

Look, I'm not trying to tell you my data is valid and yours isn't ... but to give some context, I studied Biomedical engineering in school and was involved in emergency medical for 15 years.. so I'm coming from a context that I was involved in patient care and bio / chem / life sciences for quite some time. I try to find truth, not articles taht simply support my viewpoint. If I'm wrong about something, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong ... but I also try to arduously research the information to make sure what I'm saying is backed by science, and not conspiracy theories.

 He probably wants to enjoy his life as opposed to being attacked by lunatics and threatening him

So you making that statement isn't valid because that's exactly what the liberals have been doing to Trump the past 6 years. Only at a level that is unhumane.

You know this to be true. No one on the planet has ever been treated as badly as Trump. Yet he perserveers and continues his duties despite the daily onslaught of hatred and fabricated lies.

And I say fabricated lies because not one accusation has been true.

Fauci has caused this country so much turmoil that he should be spend the rest of his days behind bars. He shut down the country. He mandated masks which has been proven to be completely ineffective. He shut down schools causing emotional issues in our children along with far too many suicides.

The list of his evil doings is endless. Why anyone would ever listen to this maniac is amazing to me. He's been caught in numerous lies. And he's wrong about almost everything.

Follow the science he says.........yeah, that would have saved  us alot of heartache had he done that

Bullshit, Buddha! 

You make a vaunted self aggrandizing statement concerning your " medical backgrounds" but

there are plenty of trained professionals working in medicine whose qualifications to " Severn the scientific truth" far out weigh yours. 

My daughter, for one. 
Despite 30 peer reviewed studies internationally and a large body of clinical evidence

Ivermectin was vilified-- as were any number of effective therapeutics. 
Since when does a Governor of a State ( a flaming Lib mafia Governor-- Colorado) 

tell seven experienced Cardio-thorasic  surgeons they must get the shot or have their medial licenses revoked? 

They refused the shot. Myocardial issues, they saw it first hand, it's even in the published vaccine disclosures.

Youre a PILOT, Buddha. And a computer geek. 

in my book ygst means you're qualified to discuss aviation and compuer geek stuff.

(and because you're a computer geek, you have made this little home here for us for many years, thank you)

BUT

because you're a Lib you tried to shut it down last year 

too many opposing and obvious facts

That never plays well with you does it?

Well, let's just say your arguments concerning Covid are politically motivated-

that much is obvious to everyone these days ..

the " mandates " your fake president imposed were unconstitutional 

and that among many other issues  will cost the Democrats EVERYYHING this coming November!

(" Let's go Brandon" --On 121.5 .. that slogan has replaced  the traditional and annoying "meo

For the next decade  at least, "cave dwelling" will become the normal mode of existence for leftists everywhere

unless.. you tools can somehow make yourselves actually believe

in yet another successfully rigged election.. 

(You can't still honestly believe 81 million people actually voted for Creepy Joe, now can you?) 

Yes "Pizza-Gate!"

 Facts? Photos, emails? Reasonable questions?  You always ignore them too.

Especially 30,000 classified emails

Hillary intentionally destroyed the evidence. No one disputed that fact .

Where is your outrage.. now only reserved for TRuMP??

Double standard - Lib hypocracy! On display daily 
and Cheney still has the temerity to lie to all of you --

Shecwsnt ro run for president ..lol.. delusions of grandeur!!

PSS.. Do you STILL believe in Hillary's dossier? 

 the Russians,?  

who hacked John Podesta?  

Yes, the Russians did successfully hack the DNCs servers --

and no one in the DNC was blamed for lax computer security

or violations of security protocols 

So now even the  Bernie Voters hate your incompetent,  political mafia too!!

BTW,  concerning Trump, 

Have you considered the FBI raid may have been motivated to confiscate damaging evidence Trump my yet possess that might be used in the coming investigations of Biden, Sonny Biden,  Crazy Nancy, Fauci. Wuhan and all those "political appointees"  who may be complicit within the deep state, 

and their past collaborator, Hillary, of course. 

Call me a "conspiracy theorist" but

you know nothing more than I do concerning that raid 

and now they want tthe DOJ to "redact" the subpoena??" 
it's clearly a matter of survival for this corrupt and complicit crowd. 

You leftist's spiritual leader 

"Lucifer" ( Ask Marina Abrovomich about him) .. 

still probably imagines he'll survive the "final judgement" too, I suppose.

" Saecula Seculorum"  { "Age of Ages, Forever and Ever" )  

Trump meanwhile, has not himself been cast into "a lake of fire"

He now  has more popular support than ever! 

You'll naturally believe anything Media Matters, CNN,and Politifact tells you, Buddha. 

that's why we'll always see you as a, badly brainwashed, willingly blind, 

useful idiot ! 

"BUT 

"because you're a Lib you tried to shut it down last year 

"too many opposing and obvious facts

"That never plays well with you does it?"

You bite the hand that feeds you?

I suspect that this forum doesn't generate enough revenue to justify the time or effort spent in administering it. I suspect that it's continued existence is a hobby and/or an effort to minimize political posting on other forums.

You want to discuss anything in your rant? Post it. I love the bullsh posts here.

I love to argue the sound posts here as well.

You, specifically, go off on a tangent with long rambling bigoted posts.